Point Made's first episode where former and current Centrepoint residents discuss their peer research into the benefits system, namely the proposed end to the Universal Credit uplift. They also discuss misconceptions around youth homelessness and those reliant on benefits.
Point Made's first episode where former and current Centrepoint residents discuss their peer research into the benefits system, namely the proposed end to the Universal Credit uplift. They also discuss misconceptions around youth homelessness and those reliant on benefits.
Ep1 the-ending-of-the-universal-credit-uplift
Mon, Jul 10, 2023 5:22PM • 27:17
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people, work, young, point, universal, credit, homelessness, money, centerpoint, centre, pay, hostel, pandemic, bills, podcast, issues, morgan, pounds, person, charity
00:02
The podcast from Centrepoint by young people for all people.
00:07
Centrepoint is the UK is leading youth homelessness charity. at Centrepoint. We believe no young person's life should be defined by homelessness. We give young people the support they need to heal and grow, no matter what. for over 50 years, we've been the centre point for change, personal and political. Everyone has their part to play with young people leading the way. This podcast has been created by young people with lived experience of homelessness will be shining a spotlight on some of the issues that affect us. We hope to challenge and change some of the stereotypes and bring others with us as a part of a movement to end youth homelessness for good. This podcast was recorded on Zoom due to the Coronavirus pandemic.
01:01
Point Made, The podcast from Centrepoint by young people for all people.
01:07
Hello, and welcome to point made the new Centerpoint podcast by young people for all people. I'm your host, Catherine, a former Centrepoint resident and peer researcher.
01:17
And I'm Shannon, a former Centerpointe resident. This is our very first episode and we're really excited to be sharing this on National Podcast Day.
01:27
Today we'll be looking at the government's planned Universal Credit and how this will affect young people. And we'll talk about the research we've been doing looking at the benefit system. We'll also be looking at some of the common misconceptions in the media around homelessness, the benefits system and young people in general. We're here with a
01:44
few former and current Centrepoint residents who we will hear from in a minute. But first I'd like to welcome Billy Harding from Centrepoints policy team. He's been leading on this research.
01:55
Thanks, Shannon. So yeah, I'm Billy and I work in the policy team here at centrepoint. And we've been doing some research over the past nine months now, with a great group of you know, Peer researchers looking at young people's experiences on the benefit system, and looking at the key issues and the challenges that young people are facing. And basically what we want to do with this research is identify what those key problems are, and then use that to campaign for change. And really try and get the government and the key people to listen about the key issues that are affecting young people. So what we've been doing is we've been speaking to young people across the country through a big survey, speaking to staff and key stakeholders, so people working for homeless charities, working for councils. We've also been doing focus groups and interviews, the young people just really kind of understand what those key challenges are, and what are the key things that we need to change. So yeah, I'll introduce you to Morgan here, who has been one of the peer researchers working on the projects over the last few months.
02:51
I so I'm Morgan, I've been with Centerpoint for the past few years now. And I recently became a volunteer for Centrepoint with a focus. But yeah, the peer research team has been working their backsides off recently to make sure that we actually get the change that is needed. We've been focusing a lot around Universal Credit recently, looking into how most of it works, how we feel about it. And from what we've got so far, we have found that it is quite a unfair process, there is quite a lot of issues based around it such as under 25, it's getting a lot less money compared to over 25. It's quite a lot of difficulties with actually being able to claim Universal Credit in the first place. There is quite a lot of young people that struggle to do so. And then just so many other issues that need to be addressed by not only us but by the government by other groups at work with the job centre or other charities or anything like that, that you know have a main focus around supporting young people who are on Universal Credit. I will now be passing back on to the next person.
03:57
So during the Coronavirus pandemic, we had a 20 pound uplift Universal Credit, which has been an absolute lifeline for 1000s of people. It's due to end on the sixth of October, which is going to push 500,000 people into poverty 200,000 of them children, I just want to introduce you to some of the other peer researchers who have got some key stats for you
04:20
Stat One. I’m Mitak and I'm one of the peer researchers here at Centrepoint. The first stat is that seven in 10 people which is 69% of young people said that it would be more difficult to buy food and household essentials if the cut goes ahead. So what do you guys think about that?
04:41
I mean, from personal experience, I used to get a lot less from Universal Credit before I managed to clear me so because of me requiring you know, the extra support because of disabilities or mental issues or anything like that. When it comes to the actual amount that we were getting. That's 20 pounds extra a week, which would total up to about 80 pounds. For some people, when it comes down to it 20 pounds can be a lot to people I said on an interview with BBC not too long ago, it can literally fill half of your fridge, if you do spend that money correctly, if you know where to go and how to, you know, like new ways with your cash. It's not just people like myself or you know, like over young homeless people or anything like that. There are many, many different types of people who are on Universal Credit that were getting that uplift that will struggle just a little bit extra because of that decrease in their payment. Yeah, I understand that a lot of people may say, Oh, well, it was meant to be temporary anymore. But in our case was being under 25, that money is money that we should have gotten the first place anywhere because we shouldn't be at a disadvantage. It's something that we should again, even wear, without actually having to go through a pandemic to watch it again at first blush.
06:00
So I just wanted to say, how do you guys respond to some people that say, this is only something that has been put in place now, and the money wasn't like this before? So how do people survive before? You know, how do we respond to that in the sense of just like, explain, like, you know, if this was something that wasn't like that before, and then it's just been taken away, but it's not literally taken away? It's actually just going back to the original amount.
06:27
I think, you know, there's been a freeze on public sector, wages and benefits haven't been going up in line with inflation. And so you know, the 20 pound uplift is for me, not even enough to cover it anyway. So I think the benefit rates need looking at anyway, especially for under 25. Bills and food are still the same whether you're 22, or whether you're 52. So it really needs to be looked at I think,
06:53
I mean, if I was to give any opinions on it, it would be a sense of you're asking, how are we meant to cope and all that kind of stuff? Or how did we cope before? And the actual answer to that is we didn't come up.
07:07
I think also, because of zero hour contracts and unstable work, it's very difficult to find work, which covers the basic essentials. So it leaves people very, very trapped into poverty. And without a rising living wage, people are really struggling, you know, you've got nurses coming back working ridiculous shifts, and then having to go to food banks, food banks are on the absolute rise. And a lot of people that are working, claim Universal Credit are now facing themselves in serious, serious hardship. And it's destroying people. And poverty. And inequality is just going up and up and up. And the polarisation between the rich and the poor is getting worse and worse.
07:46
Start two So hi, everyone, my name is Bethany, I'm also a researcher at Centerpoint. And yeah, so I have this stat here that we found, and it is six in 10. So 59% of young people said that it will be harder to pay rent and essential bills, if the cut goes ahead.
08:08
I mean, it's true, that money, the you know, they'll be having to put towards bills is the same money that they would necessarily want to spend on you know, like food costs travelling. So yeah, it is generally going to be harder for people who are, you know, like of a younger age or below 25 to actually pay their bills, and actually, you know, like, manage to sort out all their finances, because they will have a lot less money.
08:32
You know, the benefit system is a public service, and it's there, and we should be proud of it. Like the NHS act to protect the most vulnerable in society. You know, these are young people that have gone through trauma, homelessness, all sorts of kind of abuse, and really insecurity. So we need to be proud of our welfare system. And be proud that we are looking after people and getting them back on their feet. But it just needs to be fit for purpose. And if we talk about people getting into debt, we talk about the five week wait, got to take out an advanced loan that's already pushing people into debt before they've even started. So it's an unfair playing field, really, young people are at a disadvantage on Universal Credit claimants. disadvantage.
09:16
I just want to add something to that as well. Catherine, saying that, you know, a lot of people forget how vulnerable a young person can be. And a lot of time, a lot of situations and circumstances occurs. That makes it harder for you to pay your rent and pay your bill. You know, sometimes it's not just paying a rent and then paying for food and that's it. Sometimes something goes wrong in the property. A leak happens a flood happens, you don't know anything could happen. And now you need a new furniture and they need to pay something else to get plumbing done or something and you don't have the funds to do it because you've got other issues to attend to, which is paying the bills if not, I'll get kicked out and evicted. And I'm homeless again. So a lot of times And people forget that because we're more vulnerable when we don't have any support. So we are on our own and initially to pay, you know, and take responsibility. And sometimes we can't do the things that we want to do, like go to uni and focus on education to help us get a better job. So we're already starting in the lowest point, disadvantage, you know, trying to get somewhere. But we have all these burden and these responsibilities on our shoulders already, at such a young age,
10:29
young people in the Universal Credit standard allowance, taking this 20 pounds away means taking more than a quarter away of the income in their pocket, which is huge. And you know, some people are saying that if young people managed before they can, you know, certainly manage again, but I mean, the number of young people Universal Credit doubled during the pandemic, so for hundreds of 1000s of young people there without any experience of the old rate. So for them, this is just gonna be a huge cuts to their incomes. So I think that's something that you really need to consider.
10:59
Stat three
11:01
Hi, I'm Shannon. And again, I'm a peer researcher. My stat is more than a third, by that I mean 8% of young people say they would have to borrow money or ask what loan because of this cut that's going ahead. I personally think that that's a it would be a yes, or a lot more young people will be going and asking for loans and asking people to borrow money. And I just wanted to ask, what do you guys think about it?
11:28
I mean, we've we've that point, right? It's a it comes down to like, how many times can you actually go and ask for money and help and to borrow money? Also, how many times would the other person be willing to give you or lend you money? So it goes both ways, it kind of gets frustrating. And it kind of just gets rid of that, that idea of that you want to be independent? Because your thing you become dependent on other people. So it doesn't really help anyone. Anyway, I think so. Yeah.
11:59
I personally have to borrow money, because when I was on Universal Credit, like what I was getting was just not enough to even cover me, let alone with this cut that's going ahead. So you know, as you said, it's almost a quarter of like, your pocketed allowance that is going. So it's going to affect a lot of young people, especially as not all young people have people to ask for money, you know. And for those young people, it's going to be devastating for them because they have family, you have nobody to ask, you know. So that's just my, my thoughts on the situation.
12:36
Following that, oh, I also think they leave a lot of young people in very vulnerable situations where, you know, people can be very easily exploited. And vulnerable young people are very easy targets for you know, currently lying with criminal gangs, getting into prostitution, all sorts of, I think the impact is massive. And I think we need to protect these young people. And just by keeping 20 pounds a week, to keep these young people safe is absolutely vital. It's the human thing to do.
13:08
Sorry, I wanted to add a point also about the fact that young people or anyone has to borrow or loan money, it just means that when they do get their allowance, they don't have what they need to spend. So it's like they're going round in a circle, or like a cycle of borrowing, or loaning and paying back and then boring alone. And it's basically like, you might as well just go and get a loan, you know, it's the same repercussions because, yes, you might take money now and you'll be good for this week. When you get paid next week, and you have to pay it back then what do you do, then you know, who you go and ask it, it's like a, it's a very sad cycle that young people or people in general have to go through
13:48
Stat Four. So hi, again, hi, Morgan, if you didn't already know, I'm just going on to the final point, almost a third, which is 29% of young people said that the court will make it harder to access work, education or training.
14:04
I think one of my experiences is when I tried to do an access course, and I was living in really bad housing. I couldn't afford the internet. And I didn't have a laptop. And my tutor said to me, in what day and age to someone not have internet. So I think the stigma is really really there. You know, study books are really, really expensive. And it's all getting worse paying for your food to be in the lessons, you know, I'd go in starving, and I could not concentrate. So I think, you know, we need to be looking at that kind of thing as well. There are certain things that can help but look at people with childcare costs. That's absolutely crazy. So I feel like people from disadvantaged backgrounds are very marginalised in education and opportunities.
14:49
In my own experience, I think like, this is for anybody that like before you go to university. You could be on Universal Credit, maybe in college, or maybe in sixth form. and you're gonna find it difficult to see. And if you are depending on Universal Credit before, then you're gonna find it hard because that money just only enough to survive on and not really to save anything. And then obviously, there is a little bit of a gap, because sometimes you're expected to pay your rent in the first month before you get your student finance. So if you don't have enough to pay your rent, or pay the things that you need to pay for, for university in September, you're gonna find it even more hard. And that time is like a very crucial time, because that's the time when you're just getting ready for university. And maybe this is where like some people drop out. Because, you know, they're just finding it that that time where they're the most like difficult is that, you know, they need these things. And there's no one really around to help them at that point. And then another thing, because obviously, in my own experience, like I'm a mother, but I'm also a university student. And yeah, there were like so many costs to go towards that, obviously, not only just your travel your food, but obviously like childcare costs, and you have to take out, obviously, you get a little bit of help, but you still have to use some of your own money to put towards childcare. And it's not like little at all, like, there's not even money that you really have like that. So you really have to manage your money. But I think in one positive light, like there are a lot of schemes and things out there to like really help young people maybe like, the benefit system should really be more helping people to find those and to access those because if young people don't know about it, then they're going to struggle unintentionally knowing that, you know, there's things out there that could help you. So it's just kind of about knowing what is out there that can
16:42
help you I want to say I personally experienced this as well for myself a few years ago, I wanted to go uni, but I couldn't go because I was in a semi-independent housing at the moment. So I was staying in one room. And it kind of made it hard for me to go uni because it would mean I'll lose getting a independent place for myself, because then I'll be able to live in a hostel, but which I didn't want to do that. And it meant that I didn't have enough money to finance everything to do to degree and everything like that. So it kind of forced me not to go uni. And it didn't help me, you know, to look for a job either because I wasn't so qualified, I don't have the experience that I needed to be doing what I wanted to do, and what I needed the degree as well to get the job that I wanted, which none of worked out, it didn't happen. And it ended up me being you know, starting my own business and pursue my own way of making money. Which is I mean, it's good, it turned out to be good for me. But in most cases, it's not always going to be like that not everyone is going to start their own business and you know, end up being successful and doing things and making their own money. So is much harder to pursue. And a lot of people say, you know, get a job or go uni get a degree and it's not as easy as that, especially when you're in that type of situation. Because, uh, you know, sometimes you can, and a lot of people that were around me, especially my friends, they were going to Union get into degrees. But on the other hand, I had other my friends that were in a similar situation as me that were homeless, and now they live in in hostels or in one room that couldn't go to uni because they were being evicted, or they're going to lose the property. So a lot of times it was because of that. I guess you have the practical barriers to accessing work in education if
18:31
if you don't have the money to travel, you know, doing money for it's kind of getting the gear you need to move into work or education. Also, yes, the wider impacts of Yeah, like you said, Catherine not be able to concentrate the kind of impact that has on your your, your ability to access those things.
18:49
The podcast from Centrepoint by young people, for all people.
18:56
Right, we got some media coverage on the end of the uplift recently. And Morgan bravely put himself forward to be interviewed. He did not expect the plethora of negative comments that followed. Morgan, do you want to tell us a bit about that experience?
19:09
It was quite interesting rarely, because I've done a lot of interviews in the past and it was my first so yeah. I think the main issue was just random people who didn't know me at all didn't have any knowledge of my background, or what I do currently just commented such you know, like negative for no particular reason. You know, like without actually acknowledging what I've done or you know what, I've gone through all who I am as a person. Like what why would you just randomly go into it in that just to throw hate to some young person that's done nothing wrong to you? I did the interview the first place to raise awareness and you know, like, get that publicity for Centrepoint, because Centrepoint is a charity that needs to be known. And actually, you know, like be supported by not only, you know, the government, but by many other people.
20:13
Yeah, Morgan? What were some of the comments that really stood out to you and meant a lot?
20:22
I think one of the ones that did get me a lot is just a whole spamming of, you know, people saying get a job, or why is he not working and that kind of stuff without actually bothering to read the article, and read the key points that said, or is not working currently, because he deals with extreme depression and and a lot of other mental issues. If people can't be bothered to read the article, read between the lines then what's the point in looking at the news in the first place? I think of comments like I bet he spends money on drugs, and cigarettes, and booze and all that kind of stuff in it, instead of you know, focusing on his bills. Yeah, I will happily admit, I do smoke, and I do drink other tape drugs. There's many reasons why I don't take drugs. And I don't want to build stereotype that every homeless person enjoys taking drugs, because they don't. Stereotyping was so unnecessary, because like I said earlier, at the end of the day, you don't know me, you don't know what I've done fully enough, I have a job. It may not be paid for, I work my backside off. Because I enjoy the work that I do. And I want to help make a difference with not only people like myself, but the charity as a whole to make sure that it gets the recognition that it deserves.
21:40
Yeah, I agree. I think people don't really try to understand someone's situation and what they've gone through before, they just jumped the gun and kind of make assumptions. And, you know, they probably didn't read the full article and really understand what you had to go through. You know, they're just stereotyped, you and just judged you straightaway. Maybe just reading one sentence, which is quite sad. I know, Bethany had her hand up, and Shannon as well. So Bethany, over to you.
22:09
Yeah, no, I just wanted to say like, I really do, like respect Morgan. And I said this before, like, I know, Morgan, and I know, like, He's really doing a lot of stuff. And even just some of the things that came out in the research was that like, you know, there's people out there that are struggling with just having a mainstream job is not always for everybody. But sometimes just getting yourself engaged in other activities, like volunteering and other things, is still stimulating. And just because it isn't paid, it doesn't make that person less of a person. And if they need to gain support is just like imagine getting paid. But you're getting paid for a bursary to support you. There's nothing wrong with that, of course not, because you're still putting in the work and doing it. And I can say that in my own experience, as well. So I think we've all come to like an agreement here that a lot of these people think they just see Universal Credit, and then make the assumptions. But don't try to delve into actually like the person and they don't know the person. But I think there can be any type of person on Universal Credit, like anybody can be in that situation. And it's just kind of upsetting to hear that there's even that stigma at the time of COVID. Because they don't know like how long he's been experienced or been out of work. But especially at a time in COVID, where people have struggled to get work. So I think people should be more sensitive to the, to the subject of you know, people actually having a job or whether they don't, even if you want to kind of say, you know that, you know, everybody should be engaged in something, then that is then that I guess I do agree with you know, everybody should be engaged in something, not just do nothing, because that doesn't help anybody. And it definitely doesn't help the person that is going through things as well. So,
23:58
I mean, just to quickly respond before I pass on to Shannon, in response to that, the reason why I do my volunteering is to help cure it. Well, not necessarily to cure my depression, but to help manage it. Like it takes my mind off stuff. It's something I enjoy. The reason why I don't work is because I don't feel like I'm ready to work. If I go into work, and you know, like getting to a worse state, I'm just going to lose that job and then struggle to get future jobs because I lost my previous one, basically, people should at least have the respect and acknowledge that I am wanting to take my time to you know, like, reform myself, before I tried pushing myself back into work. Depression doesn't go away after one night. So you know, learn to manage it in the wrong way instead of you know, forcing them to do stuff.
24:45
But yeah, Shannon
24:48
Yeah, I totally agree with what you were saying. By the way. I just wanted to ask the question, the kinda like and on like a positive note, like, what advice can we give to people who are looking at us and judging us in certain ways it doesn't have to be like positive or negative, but what advice would you give them to like help raise awareness for what young people go through.
25:09
I think I'll just go back to the old saying of don't judge a book by its cover. And the other day, I was at university for two years, I dropped out because I was depressed and I had a lot of stuff going on in my life, I didn't feel like I was going to be able to cope with life, I will admit that I did try to do some stupid stuff. When I was back at university, I won't go into depth about it, because I don't want to bring that whole depressing story or sides to my life within this discussion. But you know, end of the day, we've all got our backgrounds. Some of them may be good stuff, or maybe bad. But that doesn't mean that we haven't got a future. Basically, like I said, Don't judge a book by its cover.
25:48
And a quick point as well, homelessness is not just street homelessness, there's people living in temporary accommodation, which they've been in for years and years and years, you know, when we were children living in hostels, you know, and there's no social housing. We need to build social housing, just because your house doesn't mean you safe. So you know, you can move into a housing association or a hostel, but it's not 100% that you're going to be staying there. So it's always precarious you always feel like you surviving, not living.
26:18
The podcast from Centrepoint by young people, for all people.
26:24
If you want more information about Universal Credit, then visit our blog at www dot Centerpoint.org slash blog. Don't forget Centrepoint offers free advice via the Centrepoint helpline to anyone aged 16 to 25. who is homeless or at risk of homelessness, call us free on Oh 808-800-0661 are open Monday to Friday 9am to 5pm you can also leave us a message on our website at www.centerpoint.org.uk/youth homelessness slash get help now.
27:09
The podcast from Centrepoint by young people for all people