This episode is hosted by Josh who was supported by Centrepoint when he experienced homelessness five years ago. He currently works for the fundraising team.
He is joined by Taylor from our Rough Sleepers Team in Manchester as well as Joe and Danny, both ex rough sleepers.
Together, they discuss the realities of homelessness, challenge the misconceptions - for example, that homelessness is a lifestyle choice and offer solutions and advice to others.
The podcast was filmed at the Cooperative Bank's Head Office in Manchester. The Cooperative Bank is one of Centrepoint's corporate partners. You can watch the episode at
This episode is hosted by Josh who was supported by Centrepoint when he experienced homelessness five years ago. He currently works for the fundraising team.
He is joined by Taylor from our Rough Sleepers Team in Manchester as well as Joe and Danny, both ex rough sleepers.
Together, they discuss the realities of homelessness, challenge the misconceptions - for example, that homelessness is a lifestyle choice and offer solutions and advice to others.
The podcast was filmed at the Cooperative Bank's Head Office in Manchester. The Cooperative Bank is one of Centrepoint's corporate partners. You can watch the episode at
Point Made, the Centrepoint podcast by young people, for all people. Welcome to Point Made, the Centrepoint podcast by young people, for all people. We're here today at the Co operative Bank headquarters in Manchester. Hosted by yours truly, Josh, a past resident, and now a Centrepoint fundraiser. We are going to be looking at a few different points today around rough sleeping, focused around how the situation can come around, who's ended up in this situation, what's helped people to get out of this situation. And other areas around that. Today we have a few people on the panel and I'll allow them to introduce themselves. Hiya, I'm XRoughSleeper My name's Joseph Wilson and I'm here today to take part in the Point Made podcast and tell you what rough sleeping is truly like. Uh, hello I'm Daniel. I'm an XRoughSleeper. I'm also a trustee for Sleep which is a homeless charity for 16 to 25 year olds. Hi, I'm Taylor. I'm a member of the RoughSleepers team at Centrepoint in Manchester. So, as you may know. As a past resident, I used to rough sleep myself. My experience was that I ended up in hospital due to illness and due to a breakdown in the family whilst in hospital, I was told not to return. At which point I ended up making my own way to Centrepoint. I was helped by quite a few people within Centrepoint. I was helped to get back into. a good standing in society. I was trained up through different courses. I found my confidence again. I originally was studying aerial aerospace engineering, and I've now switched that trade into being more into a professional fundraiser and getting more steadfast within my duties in Centrepoint. So I look forward to being able to support and giving the help that I was giving back to others through my position and through my duties. I would like to pass it on to see about your stories and if you're comfortable telling me about your experiences as well. So I became a street homeless at the age of 14. I had an abusive parent. Uh, I then went on to live in the woods for two years because I was scared of social services and other people that support young people, uh, because of the abuse I received. Uh, I would go to my grandma's for meals, uh, throughout the weeks, and I was I believe I said it, but I was straight almost for two years over winter and then went on to the charity I mentioned, Sleep, and they're supporting me to get into person who I am today. Thank you for sharing your story. And Joe, would you like to share yours as well? Um, so I went through a very traumatic childhood, long lost people at a young age, uh, started offending quite early to fundrug habit, um, which led to, Me falling into a situation where I couldn't return home due to my drug use, etc. So I ended up turning to the streets and I ended up discovering centipide around the age of 70. So, Danny, you mentioned living in the woods at the age of 14. Could you describe the feelings that you experienced during that time? It goes back to the day I actually decided that I was gonna leave. It wasn't up to me. I don't believe I'll, I give it to a being of sorts and with my faith I believe it. The person, like, for me, it's God who gave me that decision. Uh, I gave him two choices. Uh, I was either going to end my life that day, that's how I felt, or I was going to leave. And the urge, like, the most strongest urge over me, like, power came over me to pack my bag and leave. And my emotions didn't change until I got about halfway to my grandma's. And then I just felt tired and weak and scared because it had just gone dark. Being at 14, I didn't know where to go. I didn't really know the way to my grandma's. So I decided Go up in a bus stop that night, it was one of the most scary, scariest experiences for me of my whole life. Not knowing who would come and approach me when I was tucked up into a corner of a bus stop. And all the cars going past, not knowing who would be in the cars, especially when you're hearing all these stories like growing up, like you get kidnapped and all that and all these things. So it was one of the most terrifying, the initial night. And then I kind of grew accustomed to it, but there was always that fear once if I got caught. What would they do to me? Would they take me home? Or, like, would I go to prison for being in somebody's land? So I was constantly scared and I think I was very angry at the time. Can I just ask? It's interesting for me to hear you say that, but what, what led you to sort of staying in the woods and choosing that as somewhere to bed down? My abuser would use Like, social services as a, a fear tactic, and then going into foster care as a fear tactic, it's like, if you go to these places, you're gonna have no one, nobody's gonna believe you, and all that. So it was a fear of, if I went to, like, any of my sisters or my brothers, or any family, or even, like, anyone for help. I had this bad image of, like, people that are supposed to care and support everybody. And then, I was scared that my grandma wouldn't believe me and then send me back. So I stayed there, not realizing how kind and how caring my grandma actually was. And then, the day she found out, she was angry at me. She nearly, like, clouted me, she was angry. She just got out of the Z bed, and it was one of the most comfiest beds, even today, like, I have, like, memory foam mattress. And that Zed bed is still imprinted on me on how comfy they are. And I've been on one since. And they're the most horrible beds in the whole wide world. Like, nobody wants to sleep on one of them. During the time you were sleeping, there was as well. Did you have any belongings with you or was it just literally what you had on your back is what you had to carry? Um, and even then, did you have certain locations you felt safe for sleeping in? Or was it just wherever you felt best at the time? I had a general space. There's a place called Croston and there's quite a bit of farmland there with quite a bit of woods and there's especially like there's one pocket where it's in the middle of like fields so nobody would go there and so I never had any fires or anything like that because I didn't want any houses or people to know I was there but I built a lean to. So I used to watch burglars when I lived at home and I learned from him. I can tell you now it's a lot easier on TV than it is in person, it is, it was freezing. I used to walk around in circles to the point where the bottom of my feet was just pure white and dead. And when I used to go to my grandma's I used to put my feet up and stuff like that and have a shower. And every now and again I would borrow her camping stuff and said I'm going to go camping. Uh, and I used to like borrow tins and such when I didn't want stuff and I had a blanket that I still have today. Uh, I've kept it with me since at that point. I used to like, borrow the blanket and say I'm gonna go camping, especially when it started to get colder. Uh, but the lean to was my main thing, so I don't, for the people that are listening, if you ever know what a lean to is, it's a big stick that goes across between two trees and two wire sticks and then loads of different ones in between to build a shelter to stop the rain going on you and stay as warm as you can, really. Danny, did you feel like you were failed by the services when you were that age? I do quite often think to myself, about my school, why did I not pick up fit? So I didn't go to school, I had an attendance of less than 43 percent by the end of school. I literally went for my exams. Like, I knew, I know I used to skive, but not to the point where I didn't show up for months on end. So I also feel let down by, I always ask myself, would I have actually told them, if they asked me? So I get like, annoyed at them, like, would I have admitted what was going on at home? Like, does that, because then it opens up like social services are involved again. So there's like, fear that I'll probably put in place myself. But then I'm like, I know full well if I went to school and spoke about it today, I'd say to my, like, ASCII students, don't be scared. I think there's a thing called ACES, which is about like, childhood trauma and stuff, which I recently trained in. And like, I see so many different things, like, especially in people that we spoke to, like, from their childhood. And like, my own personal experience. And like, I wish teachers were trained in this. Like, recently, I'm like, keep having refreshes because It's important. I wish like I got out of it sooner, but to where I am today I'm like also like Proud that I've gone through it because I use my story to help people that have gone going through it now and been through it And hopefully get the help they need So we're going to now switch over as well. Joe, um, thank you for waiting as well. No worries. Um, so during your experience as well, could you give us a, you said that you took substances and that, you know, you had a form of your own form of abuse during time. Would you like to explain how that made you feel or how you were feeling during them times? Um, well, with homelessness, um, drugs sort of go hand in hand. They can offer a safety blanket to a lot of people and, you know, provide us something that occupies time and whatever, so. When I was out here, I was young and I was naive. I didn't really know what path I was going to take, you know, I was criminal. I'd never thought I'd get out of the situation. I guess I felt isolated. I felt lonely, you know, felt a bit depressed, but there was always something in me that knew that I was better and more important than. dying in a doorway, you know, and that's why I think it's important that I took that step mentally. You know, you can say, you can get all the things put in place. People can say, right, I'll help you. I'll open this door, that door, but you've got to want to be willing to, you know, make the steps to process. And I think that's a major thing with every, every rough sleeper. You know, there's a reason we're outside, whether it's drugs, whether it's. abuse, whether it's, you know, different circumstances, but there's always that one connection and that's my personal opinion, you know. Where'd you used to sleep? I've slept in every doorway in Manchester City Centre over the years. Um, but I was mostly located in either the Deansgate area, um, because it was a lot safer. You know, the people were a lot more friendly because there's a lot of abuse from the public towards homeless people, which is unacceptable because we're all human beings, but that's the sad reality of it. But yeah, mostly the Deansgate area. And you just felt safer there, that sort of thing? Yeah. Yeah. I think it was more of the environment. Like, you know, you go somewhere, for example, like Piccadilly Gardens, etc. It's, it's hectic. You know, there's a lot of people going on. There's a lot of dangerous or bad activity around that area where you go to Deansgate. It's a bit more quieter. It's a bit more sensible, you know, because that's what you need to do. You need to make sure you're not just dry and you're not cold. You need to also make sure that you've got a way of feeling safe, you know, because that's another key aspect to survival on the streets. It sounds like you had two turning points. One from turning from the drugs and then one from choosing to remain on the streets to then seeking help. Um, what made you turn at them points? I had a thought one day, like, I'm better than this, you know, I was deep in addiction and I wanted to change personally. Um, you know, like, I just, I just really did just want better for myself. You know, it comes from your own drive, but having charities available like Centrepoint. Really helps me to achieve that because they put you in the right direction. You'd get all the support with your benefits, etc. You know, they were really helpful and I'm forever grateful to what they did for me. And that leads into the second turning point of, um, choosing to move from the streets to Centrepoint. Um, what helped you do that? What did you get information? Did someone come across you? Did you just find out? I think outreach plays a major part in helping people to get to services, et cetera. Okay. You know, when staff members from Centrepoint used to come and see me in doorways and they were always kind and friendly and they were always like, just come down. We want to help you. You know, it's it stems from them making an effort as well to want to reach out to young people. Um, I sort of had an understanding the center point, but like I said, when they started doing outreach and they brought me in, I really started to get an understanding of, you know, these people are here to help you. And without a charity like Centrepoint, etc, it'd be a lot more of a harder situation for people to escape because Centrepoint provide not just support in accommodation but support in every aspect and I think that's really important and a really positive point on the charity's behalf. Taylor, you're part of the outreach team that Joe's speaking about. Could you tell me a bit more about that and why it's so important? Yeah. So, um, the rough sleepers team at center point, we do, you know, quite a few different things. Outreach is, is one of the most important things that we do. Um, it is much like Joe said, it's literally out walking the streets and looking for people that are rough sleeping. And it's, it's almost, we call it pre engagement work. It's meeting people where they're at, um, building a bit of a relationship, letting them know that we're there. There are people there that care and getting them, I guess, just, just used to our faces, to be honest. So that when they are ready to take that step and come inside, like, like Joe was, they know that there's a service there. There's people there that can help them. Um, the, the, the trust part is probably the most important bit. Cause for someone sleeping rough for them, for them to be vulnerable enough to come inside, they have to trust a person that they're going to go and speak to. Um, and that's, yeah, it's just a key part of the outreach really. And, uh, The way that we sort of, the way we try and do it, like I said, it's very person centered, meeting people where they're at. So whether it's a doorway in Manchester city centre or we go out to a lot of the parks, sort of all across Manchester in Rushome or down in Fallowfield, for example, um, wherever somebody is bedding down, we will go and try and find them. You know, we get reports from whether it's other charities, other partners, from young people themselves that are already working with us or that sort of speak to our helpline at Centrepoint. And we get these sort of reports of people bedding down. We'll go out, we'll find them. And we just try and start that process of getting people inside when they're ready. So you've mentioned, um, reaching out to bring them in. So could you also elaborate on what happens once you've actually got them in and what the stages are from there? Yeah. So, um, first step is finding emergency accommodation when people are sleeping. Um, we have a few different types in Manchester. So we've got the A bends, that was Andy Burnham's big scheme. Um, I don't know, Joe, have you ever stayed in any of the A bends? Yeah. You know what they're like. Um, we have, uh, emergency accommodation that the council might provide. And then center point, we've got a few quite new, actually new, um, sort of two bed tenancies that people can stay in for a couple of months. Um, once they're in that emergency accommodation, that's then when you might get linked in with the other services that we've got at center point. So I work on the rough sleepers team, but we have a complex case team for people that might be struggling with their mental health or we've sort of. serious substance misuse. Um, we have our rent deposit team as well, which will help people move out of the emergency accommodation into their own tenancies. Um, and then we've got loads of different services from jobs, education, training team, um, there's the psychotherapy service, but for us, it's about getting people in initially to come to want to come to center point inside. Then it's getting them into emergency accommodation and And with whichever team they're working with, then it's, it's about, I guess, finding what is going to be suitable and sort of stable long term accommodation. Somewhere that we can get somebody in and hopefully it's the last time they ever need our support because we found them whatever accommodation they needed. to be able to take the steps like Joe and Danny have taken now. So you've mentioned reaching out. You've also mentioned what happens when you brought them in and elaborated on the story. And the goal of the story as well is to hopefully ensure that once they've experienced a stable life through Centrepoint, they can independently go and experience that themselves. So I guess my next question to you would be what would be helpful for you to be able to provide more people like Danny, like Joe, um, with that support. Yeah, I suppose that one of the biggest barriers we have is just a lack of available accommodation. Um, because unfortunately it's not always the case when people are ready to make that step and come inside. It's not always the case that we've got anywhere for them. Um, sometimes it takes a couple of days. Sometimes it might be a few weeks. So, so lack of accommodation is probably the biggest, the biggest issue. Um, but then You know, it can be sort of people's individual support needs. So, you know, Joe mentioned struggling with, you know, substance use can be a big pull for people to, to even if they're ready sort of one day, maybe the next day, you know, it can drive people in. It's, it's a lifelong battle for a lot of people. Um, things like severe and enduring mental health can be a, a real barrier to getting people inside sometimes. And whether that's finding suitable accommodation or, or them just not being, being ready for it yet, um, not being able to sustain it. Um, and then to be honest, another barrier that we find, and I don't know if you two might be able to, to sort of chip in on this, is when people are sleeping rough, it's access to like basics. Necessities, food, a shower, a phone that you can charge, little things like that, even just getting around, having money for the bus to get to wherever the accommodation is, can be a huge barrier sometimes. I don't know if it's something that you two sort of found when you were rough sleeping or not. I'd say yeah, you know, but that's the great Centrepoint, like when a lot of people feel like there's no way they could potentially go for somewhere to eat, a shower. Even as little as a conversation, you know, like, it's not just about the big things, like, you have to deal with the smaller things before we can progress into dealing with the bigger things in the situation, for example, housing, etc. You know, you need to make sure that That, you know, somebody's really ready, you know, it's like I've said, the best thing that center point could do to potentially help more young people is expanding it on a wider level. And I do agree in what you're saying, you know, I think that's something that really needs to get spoke about because You know, there's more and more people becoming homeless every day from the age of 16 to 25 regardless, so you don't know what the situation is, but no doubt it's, it's something similar to somebody you've potentially already heard about. So, you know, if Centrepoint can reach out to more people, they can make a bigger difference and potentially over time you'll see. The way that homelessness is being treated, it will eventually, you know, prevent more homelessness. You think when, like, when you were rough sleeping, like, an outreach service, if they could have come out and seen you where you were and had a chat with you, would that, would that have helped or not? Do you think it was a case, just you needed to be ready? I felt like I was always ready. I felt like I always, like, every day I was like, please get me off the streets. I don't want to be here. So it was always like that. And I was always like, every time I went to my grandma, I was like, I want to tell her today. I want to tell her what situation it is. But it was the, I might get emotional, but it was the day I was going to tell my grandmother it was going to be my final goodbye. I wasn't going to tell her I was going to kill myself or anything. I was going to say goodbye. And that was it. That was the day I was like, that's it. I've had enough. It is getting cold again. That's it. And, I don't know what came over me. Grandmas are grandmas, they know everything, don't they? Especially when they can see what's going on. She went, you better tell me what's going on now, because I'm not letting you leave this house. Until you do. So I told her what was going on. And, like I said before, she got angry. Why didn't you tell me sooner? I do look about wish that somebody found me. But I was also, like, scared of who would find me. Yeah. So, like, going back, it was like being scared of being sent home, because I find that a lot of young people now that present themselves to the council, have been told to go back home. And that's the young ones that are usually under the duty of care. But, like, the situations don't seem to matter to, like, the way they present. I don't know if it's the way they present themselves to the council, or the way the council perceive it. But, like, if they've left home, there's a reason behind it. The way the word intentionally homeless as well should be re thought about because what is intentionally homeless? Is it a question that we can argue for the rest of the day? So stuff like that, like they didn't intentionally grow up in that family, they didn't intentionally grow up in that situation. Even people that end up unable to pay rent, like whatever reason they've end up in that situation, like it's more important than anything to understand these young people, not even just young people, people in general that are on the streets because whatever Decisions getting made on young people now will impact the generations that are still in sleep because, was it two or three years ago, statistics just for young people is like 120, 000 young people on the streets. I think that was two years ago, three years ago. And it's only going up, was it 74 percent of this first quarter. It's ridiculous. It's something that we're finding quite a lot recently now is a lot of like economic homelessness as well. So people who've been through difficult times like yourselves, but finding more and more it's those people who, Maybe they can't afford to pay rent for a couple of months, and then the landlord kicks them out, or I don't know, we get people who've, like, claimed asylum over here, and I've had to leave the home office accommodation, sort of, in 28 days, and they don't have anybody else to stay with, and, and it's just brutal. It's really brutal, for us, why the outreach is so important, you know, just, just to try and get people inside, and a lot of people don't know about services like Centrepoint, or about presenting as homeless to a local authority, or anything like that. Um, They're not in the city center, so they're not being seen by other people that are rough sleeping who can help them or even just take them to like a day center or a drop in because they're, I mean, they could be anywhere. We went to see someone once who was in a graveyard in an abandoned church, like sleeping underneath a tomb, like literally in a tomb just to stay dry. Places like that, you know, you're never, you're never going to be, no one's going to know you're there. You know, and for us, it's. Why we find it so important. So Joe, what were the important parts of a charity that you found useful in helping you throughout your journey? Consistency, I think, is a really strong key ingredient for people to keep on the right path and staying off the streets. You know, having services like Centrepoint where a worker's on hand any point between a certain time of the day. I think that's one of the really good things, like you need someone that you know is going to be there, like regardless of what you're going through, you know, you need like, like trust is a huge thing and Centrepoint provide that trust for a lot of the clients. What they're doing is, is really important and you know, there is going to be more homeless people because that's unfortunately the way of the world, but the consistency of Centrepoint is a thing that's going to keep it on a level where hopefully in the future it's going to be controllable. And the second thing is, you know, it goes hand in hand, the availability, you know, being able to just go Monday to Friday, present yourself, say hello, you know, have a conversation, you know, I think that's really important because homelessness, like, for example, if you are scared of presenting yourself or you are scared of Interacting with the service, you know, it's good that, for example, somebody like me or Danny could potentially go to the next homeless person and give them that information which could potentially help them and benefit their lives. And I think they're my two really key important accesses, the availability and obviously the consistency of the work that they do to keep people off the streets. I think it's brilliant. I agree. It is consistency. Being listened to as well and believed. I think they're the most important things, like having somebody sat there and understanding where you're coming from, even though they haven't been through it themselves, and then believing that you've been through the situation. When I tried, like, presenting myself to the councils, like a lot of people that didn't believe that I went through it. So I feel that is two of the things, so believing in and listening. So Taylor, getting into it, what do you believe the government could do more to support Charitiesite Centrepoint? Um, I know what they shouldn't do, definitely. Making tents illegal and finding charities for giving them out. That's not a good idea, but I know I mentioned it earlier, just more accommodation, whether that's emergency accommodation, uh, whether it's support accommodation like the hostels or even going further, like social housing and helping people get out of private rented accommodation that can be so unstable and into something a bit more. sort of stable, like, like social housing. And that will be the big thing. And to be honest, I think just just treating people sleeping rough, like, like humans, you know, rather than, like, treating them as a problem, something that needs to be solved. Just a bit of compassion, really. And would anyone else like to answer that question? I think one of the main things the government could do is they should stop criminalising people for rough sleeping around the city centre. For example, they'll arrest people for rough sleeping or begging or etc, but if there's nothing in place for these people, they're gonna go back to the same places, they're gonna go back to the same ways of getting by because that's what they were doing before the police intervened. So I think prosecuting people for rough sleeping is a completely unacceptable idea, and I think it's potentially just gonna make people Go back to the streets because in the long run, they're just going to think, well, they're not helping me. I'm going to go to jail, at least I'm warm fed, et cetera. So I think they should focus on that aspect. If you ban someone from sleeping in the city center, they're only going to have to sleep somewhere else, aren't they? Exactly. And then because they're not allowed to be in the city center, they may longer now think that the help's not available to them because they can't access it, et cetera. So that's, that's the point I'm getting at exactly what you're saying, Taylor. They're not making a solution to just moving the problem somewhere else, basically. Yeah. Any suggestions, Danny? I've got to agree with all of them. And I think defining some of the stuff I said earlier, like, intentionally homeless, like, what does that mean? Because it feels like an excuse at the minute, when people are trying to find support, you're intentionally homeless, like, they need to define the reasonings, what makes that, like, if somebody's earning like two grand a month and not paying the rent. And they're well off. That's someone that, in my opinion, is intentionally homeless. Like, you have the means to pay it. But for the people that don't have the means or come from, like, a challenging background, whatever the reasons behind that. Like, they're not intentionally homeless. Just because you've left the situation doesn't mean you've made yourself intentionally homeless. So it feels like, um, in a roundabout way of summarizing everything, a lot of the laws and the penalizations that are getting put into place, um, are rather than being prevention acts, they are actually Acts to just justify not doing a better job, not providing the actual support the government should provide, and actually caring for the citizens that they are governing over. And that is the frustration in a roundabout way that I think we're all feeling on this table. I guess after sharing all the stories and, um, all the experiences and also hearing about what Centrepoint does as well and how the outreach work, I guess one of the final questions would be to ask if you had a message or statement to share with another young person or someone that could potentially become homeless, what would that message be? Don't give up. Yeah, stay strong. Um, you know, you will have to go through the storm, but it's about learning to dance in the rain. Yeah, try and find comfort in charities like Centrepoint. Um, you know, just because you're homeless now, you might not be homeless tomorrow. Keep faith, keep it moving, keep it 100. Don't let your situation destroy the person you are, turn you into somebody that you're not. You know, stay positive and believe in yourself that That you're better than where you are now. And you know, through the, through the darkest of night, there's always a brighter day ahead. So that, that's my advice to a young person is to, you know, keep your head high, keep it moving and not give up. You know, have inner strength. Keep on trying your best to find your way out of this situation because I promise you now to any young person that's currently rough sleeping, when you get out of it, I promise you, it gets better. I'm talking from experience. Don't think that just because you're in this position now, you're always going to be in this position. There is people that are willing to help you and you also have to remain strong until that time comes. But believe me, every, everybody has that day where, you know, you could potentially your whole life could change. So keep faith, keep strong and keep moving. And I think that message is even more powerful because of the fact that you have experienced it. And it's not just coming from somebody that's had a silver spoon life, so to speak, but you've actually had to go through it. You've had to dance in the rain. You've had to keep it moving. You've had to keep pushing forward. And that's what's allowed you to become the stable man that you are now, and the reformed person that you became now as well. Of course. Um, and if anyone You should be proud of yourself, definitely. You should be proud of yourself. Thank you. 100%. Um, and I'm grateful for having experienced that as well with you. Respect, Margie. Thank you. Danny, asking you the same question. What would your message be? First, I've got to say, your words can't be more true, Joe. Like, it is so true, you've got to keep going. But, I'm going to speak from like, go ask for help. It is scary. I, same experience, like, why do you want to turn to them like, you've been scared? But people care, like I have found that, even like, being on the other side of it, and going like, cause I've uh, gone to consult for charities, and like seeing like, the people want to help, they're just like waiting for you to come in, and they understand you're scared too, like, when you haven't got people coming in to help, they're like, you understand the scare then, and you know it's a big step, and don't be scared for asking for help. And that is one of the main things that people don't always realize or really accept that sometimes asking for help is probably the most important thing or the biggest step you could take. And it's not just about what you want at that point, it's actually what you need and being able to actually Get from one space or place in life to a better one in itself is better when you got people to support you than when you're on that journey on your own. For anybody that feels that they are potentially in danger of being homeless or anything like that, or you're nervous about who to speak to, just go online and figure out the best people to speak to based on your age and just ask. There's no harm in asking a question. Taylor, what would your advice be to another young person that you are reaching out to? Yeah, I mean, I don't think I can put it better than Joe and Danny, to be honest. Um, just ask for help. You know, it's our responsibility to to be consistent and to be there for the young people that need support and make sure that we can get them inside when they need it and when they're in a crisis. Um, so, yeah, to be honest, I don't think I can add anything on what Joe and Danny have said. I've not put it better. In all honesty, I do agree. I think they've kind of summarised everything in whatever message could be passed on. I think Yusuf gave that message as powerful as it could be. Um, and I'd really like to say thank you for your time. Thank you for sharing your stories. Thank you for still caring about other people. for having me. So just as a final piece of advice, I would just like to pass over to Taylor, who's just gonna have a few words to share with everyone. If you're a young person who's rough sleeping, you're at risk of rough sleeping, um, maybe things are not great at home, best piece of advice I think I could give is to call the Centrepoint helpline on 0808 800 0661 and they're going to be the best people to advise you. It doesn't matter where you are in the country, they can signpost you to services that can help. Um, if you're a member of the public, you see someone rough sleeping, especially with the way they're getting colder now, there's a website called street link so you can report people that you've seen that are sleeping rough, um, wherever that is, sort of the local authority outreach team or a charities outreach team can then go out and, and try and find that person. Um, You know, just, just offered to buy him a brewer or a hot drink and treat him with a bit of humanity really, I suppose, taking a different outlook. Where are you up to in life yourselves now anyway? Uh, like Joe, what are you doing in life? What's keeping you happy in life? Yeah. Currently keeping clean off drugs. Um, trying to help out with center point and other charities as much as I can. I've got a partner now who I'm happy with, you know, now, but like, you know, she's got an important role in keeping me on the straight and narrow. Uh, but yeah, I'm just really want to give back to the charities who helped me and with doing that. I hope that that makes an impact on young people's lives and also the charities that keep doing it. And Danny, there's a few new things, like I'm a dad now, like eight weeks ago, I would have said motorbikes, but now it's being a dad, like happiest thing that keeps me going and being a trustee for a charity that supported me as well. Like, and then when people can't like, they can't support the people that come and ask for help, especially if I've referred them, I'll go and help them myself. Uh, I find that even if you give, it always comes back to in some way or another and I've, I've been on the other side and needed to help. So you give what's been given to you. That is spectacular. Um, as someone that has recently become a dad themselves, I understand that joy. Definitely understand that joy. Um, one of the best aspects in life, just knowing that you've came from one spot that you probably would have never pictured having a family in, to now being sustainable to have a family, to now being sustainable to have your own partner, and to enjoy someone else to embrace alone. It removes that big, big black hole of loneliness that probably every homeless person can mutually share. So genuinely, big respect to that. Congratulations to you both. Definitely. And I hope nothing but more happiness in the future. Thank you. So. Wrapping up today, I want to say thank you to the whole of the panel. Thank you to everyone that's listening. And thank you for everyone that's liked, subscribed. And if you haven't done so, please like and subscribe. But on behalf of myself and behalf of Centrepoint and on behalf of Point Made, thank you for listening and hope you come back again. Point Made, the podcast from Centrepoint, by young people, for all people.