Vulnerable young people are being forced into homelessness due to unsafe, unstable and unaffordable housing.
Supported accommodation helps to break the cycle and provide young people with the safety and stability they need to move on with their lives – but it can only do so much.
When young people are ready to leave homelessness behind and live independently, they face even more obstacles – like the housing crisis, and age discrimination in the Universal Credit system. But it doesn’t have to be this way.
In this episode of Point Made, current and former service users Ikra, Louise and Toni-Ann share their experiences of housing and talk about the changes they’d like to see.
They’re also joined by Dr Tom Kerridge, our Policy and Research Manager, as he shares some of the findings of our new research report, Somewhere to Call Home: Improving young people's access to affordable, safe and secure housing.
Vulnerable young people are being forced into homelessness due to unsafe, unstable and unaffordable housing.
Supported accommodation helps to break the cycle and provide young people with the safety and stability they need to move on with their lives – but it can only do so much.
When young people are ready to leave homelessness behind and live independently, they face even more obstacles – like the housing crisis, and age discrimination in the Universal Credit system. But it doesn’t have to be this way.
In this episode of Point Made, current and former service users Ikra, Louise and Toni-Ann share their experiences of housing and talk about the changes they’d like to see.
They’re also joined by Dr Tom Kerridge, our Policy and Research Manager, as he shares some of the findings of our new research report, Somewhere to Call Home: Improving young people's access to affordable, safe and secure housing.
The podcast from centre by young people for all people. Centerpoint is the UK is leading youth homelessness charity. at Centerpoint. We believe no young person's life should be defined by homelessness. We give young people the support they need to heal and grow no matter what. for over 50 years, we've been the centre point for change, personal and political. Everyone has their part to play. With young people leading the way. This podcast has been created by young people with lived experience of homelessness will be shining a spotlight on some of the issues that affect us. We hope to challenge and change some of the stereotypes and bring others with us as part of a movement to end youth homelessness for good. Welcome to point made the centerpoint podcast by young people for all people. My name is Tony Gurdon. I'm passionate about social justice. In today's episode, we will be talking about the meaning of home as Centerpoint launches its new research on social housing. The aim of the research was to examine the housing aspirations of young people with experiences of homelessness and think about the ideas that grounded. Through this, we suggest that young people's housing goals are rooted in notions of affordability, safety, and security, giving them the foundation to have agency over their lives, and perhaps for the first time, consider their futures. Before we get into this discussion, I'd like to introduce our panel. I'm Tom, I'm a policy researcher at Centerpoint. I wrote and did the research that toniann just mentioned. Hi, I'm a crier. I'm 19 years old. I've been homeless for about a year. I come from a care experience background. And I'm here today because when I became homeless, I felt like I became invisible to society. And I want to help spread awareness on what homelessness actually means to young people. Hi, my name is Louise, I'm passionate about social justice, I have lived experience of using the service. I work in education. So I'm passionate about young people having stable homes. Thank you. It's great to have you here. Tom, what were the main takeaways from your research? Yeah, so obviously, there were quite a few takeaways. But I think essentially, we found that young people, like everyone want affordable, safe and secure housing, they want to live in a home, where if the cost of energy or food goes up, they know that they're still gonna be able to pay the rent at the end of the month, they want to live in a home where they're not kind of subject to the whims of a landlord who might kick them out, you know, in next month, for this month, for tomorrow, even, they want to also feel safe in their home, they want to have control over who enters their house, who they share their house with. And they want to feel essentially, like they have power over the places in which they live. And I think we also found that that feeling of power, that feeling of stability, gives people the opportunity to think, you know, think about their futures and to start setting goals in the long term. We found that, say for example, opportunities to live in her social housing enabled young people to think perhaps for the first time about what it is that they wanted to do for their jobs, to build a kind of Korea for themselves, which was amazing to see. You know, we saw some people had started businesses from their flats, we saw that some people had started to go down a really creative pathways. And we found that that was all because they had stability, they felt like they could actually kind of live in a home where they were able to be themselves and think about what they wanted to do. We also found that young people found kind of stable home stable housing, gave them opportunities to like build relationships, and develop networks of support with other people, you know, having come from quite, I guess, chaotic backgrounds without perhaps moving around quite a lot. It meant that the young people who we interviewed hadn't been able to develop kind of meaningful relationships that lasted in the long term. And actually, the chance or the opportunity to live in this kind of stable home enabled them to begin to develop like friendships, start to kind of interact with neighbours start to engage in community activities and activism. So it was a really kind of interesting how comes that he noticed. But of course, we also found that the actual kind of housing market in this country isn't necessarily kind of set up to support young people to live stay at, you know, to live in stable accommodation, social housing is a really inaccessible option for many, many young people, unless they have kind of significant priority. You know, for example, if they have a kind of disability, or if they have, you know, if it's like a mother with a with a child, for example. So we also found that there, there really needs to be a real kind of increase in social homes being built, so that young people could, I guess, for the first time, start to think in the long term start to plan their lives and start to really lead I guess what they were, they were considered to be meaningful lives. Thank you, Tom. That's very insightful. And to Louise and Accra, home means lots of different things to different people. What does home mean to you, beyond the four walls and a roof, to me home means somewhere I can feel safe and protected. And that's something that sounds very basic, but there's a big lack of, especially in places like sheltered housing, there's a lot of lack of control over the environment, especially when the most accessible housing is one that you share with other people that I would have never met before. For me, home isn't always about a place, I always say Home is where the heart is. And sometimes place may not be home, but it's a feeling. And you can get that from friends, family, and others. And I think the most important thing for me, it's like, I have lived experience of being in the care system. And when I didn't move into when I did use the service, I think it's important to have safety and security. The fact that you know, you can be able to lock your door and know who's coming in on the fact that I think it's important to know your neighbours, and to who you live with and who you share with because at the end of the day, know your, when it's just you, by yourself safely, so important. You need to be able to protect yourself. And if you don't know, if you're placed in certain sheltered accommodations, you have no choice of where you where you can live. And that can sometimes be a barrier for some young people, because then they might be put in certain situations. Yeah, I just think, you know, safety, it may seem like something basic, but actually, when you don't have safety is the biggest thing for you, you know, you want to feel safe, you want to be able to lock your door, you want to be able to know that you're coming to a safe environment, and it is home. And you also want to feel secure that this is mine, and you don't want to feel like someone's gonna take it, you know, lift the rug off of you, you want to feel like okay, this, I'm secure. Because once you secure, you can build a life, you know, you can get settled. But once you're if you're on edge, you cannot do that. You're surviving if you're living in that sort of state. And that's not the way to live. And we want you to be thriving. Sure. Our research has found that access to social housing can vary a lot for young people. Some only have to wait a few weeks or months to access social housing, or others who do not have a priority or who live in areas with very little social housing, can struggle to even find somewhere. What has been your experiences of trying to secure social housing? So actually, I've was I got a bit lucky I got my accommodation a week before lockdown happened. And if it had happened a week later, I don't think I would have had it but also I was six months pregnant. So I do think I was a priority. But I don't think I do think that even if you know you don't you know you aren't pregnant, you don't have kid I do think you should still be prioritised as well. Especially if you're a vulnerable young person, but when I was six months, they found me my permanent place where I am now. And it was a week before lockdown. And you know, that was quite intense because I had to be interviewed on a panel so I I am lucky that my PA workout was supportive to me, but I know that that may not always be the case for others. So and it's kind of a bit like a postcode lottery. Yeah, I agree. For me, this was never the option. I never plan to ever be homeless as this every young person who is homeless. I was in cars in a same foster home for around 10 to 11 years and had a breakdown on that home post 18. And as a care leaver the options offered to me was temporary accommodation or the homeless shelter. Before I made my decision, I got to see these, how they were and I'm from my house was an affluent area. So I was very blessed and lucky to be from that area and to have to leave that was a big decision to make along with the emotional detachment from actual what I called family. I want to pursue higher education which is very unlikely for a person in life position. And it's discouraging to one that for myself, because I'm now not prioritised. And there's a lot of grey area on to where I can keep permanent accommodation. While being in university. I remember when I first moved in, actually left my home before I moved all my stuff, I was moving 11 years of my life on my own. And it was extremely difficult, especially how I do not drive. And I had inconsistent family members to do that for me. I remember being in those four walls of my room, it felt very trapping. And the first things I actually did was change the light bulb, because that light bulb was really dim. And it really made a difference changing it. But it was small things like this that no one really paid attention to. And it made the world's difference. And a mate had had about 15 to 20 pounds to spend on you know, making my room my space. So I bought a plant. And that plant that splash of green, it made it more friendly, more welcoming, are more comfy. And I'm grateful, I've been able to make my space, my space and feel protected. I just wanted to add as well. When I moved into my place, I was six months pregnant. And well, it was well begin the beginning of the pandemic, I didn't have any family friends to help me. So I had to get a taxi and my PA had to hire a van. But they wouldn't bring it up the stairs and I lived on the first floor. And so I had to carry up the stairs, well, six months pregnant. And that was quite frightening, because just offer heavy. And when my mattress got delivered, I had to carry up the stairs. And nobody helped me. And I just think it matters to have that support around you, you know, to move into a new place a new environment, a new area, you don't know anyone you're by yourself is very daunting. And I just think it's important that people had that support to be supported, for them to have community connections, if possible, because you know, moving on your own, I wouldn't wish that for anybody. And I think it's so important that we have that structure. Before I quickly go, I just want to say as well before I got my place. They actually tried to put me on the fourth floor. And there were no lifts. And so I actually had to fight for myself to be like Well, unfortunately, you know, I'm pregnant. For floor no lift if I have when I have my young my baby and I've got a buggy, I'm not Superwoman. And so they thought you're young you can carry it but I really had to fight for myself to be like, No, this isn't acceptable. Can I be live on the first floor? Here? Mommy asked asking what is it been like for you to have a child while being homeless? I would say I had her locked down. So that was traumatising. Because I had to go to appointments alone scans alone, I had to get tests I was in labour by myself, they wouldn't allow anybody in. It was it was very hard and daunting. Because you know, you could be told life changing news and there's no one to support you. There's no one to hold, hold your hand. And you're also being judged as well being being from a care experience background you're being judged for if you're if you're able to be a suitable parent, or caregiver. So that was hard as well. Thank you for sharing. Thank you so much for sharing, you're both very brave. What has deterred you from trying to secure a privately rented property is that the cost of living is that discrimination from landlords in security deposits or anything else that you've experienced? Well, it's a combination of all of the above, it's really difficult to privately read. There's a discouragement from social housing itself. Because if I was to get private read, I would lose my entitlement to a flat as a carryover. I can't necessarily work enough to afford a deposit. And I do not have a guarantor, which makes acquiring housing and being approved for housing really difficult, as well as being able to afford it in this cost of living crisis. I mean, I will add, I was on Universal Credit when I first saw my little one. So unfortunately, I wouldn't have been able to afford some of the private renting and also they discriminate against people who are on Universal Credit, which I think is wrong, because the way I see it, as long as the rent paid was the problem. And also because I was character sprint, I didn't have a guarantor who earned over like 40k to kind of like, you know, back me up or or to support me, I couldn't even afford a deposit. And so I think there are barriers for young people accessing private renting because, you know, there are times when people can actually afford to pay the rent, but because of you know, guarantor because of deposits in place and not able to access that and also have been discriminated against. So that was hard and even now I've got a new job which is really stable. But I the way the market is right now if I will to private rent, who's to say in next year, it will go up by, you know, double, and then that could be an issue. Because if I'm looking at the year ahead, and then because of private renting, they can have a kick you out because they want the property back, or they can up the rent, like, as much as they want. So the problem is that there's no kind of, there's no rule for every single one of them. It's like they all have their own. And so the problem is, is that you never know, but private renting, you could be gone tomorrow, you might have to leave in 30 days. And so I think it's a lack of insecurity, you know, it's never going to be yours is you know, because you have to give it back at some point. And so, I am grateful that I have my social housing, because the private rented market right now is horrendous, and people are having to be evicted for short notice, and I know money. Yeah. Thank you so much for sharing. I really resonate with both of you, as a young person with protected characteristics. I've experienced, you know, homelessness, I've experienced, being a caregiver, but not having the support from the care team, just being given a flat, and you know, here's your home, that's it, and not really being checked upon. And then I just kind of dropped off the books when I turned 21. Same thing as you at Quora, I was in a stable placement. And unfortunately, something happened. And the option was go back home to the issues that I was running from, or go into semi independent living. And the room that I was offered was the size of a bathroom. So we're talking very small, and I could just about turn around in that room. And it was not suitable the person offering that space was very hostile. So I was limited to that room between certain hours, I wasn't able to use the family's computers and things like that. And I didn't own one of my own. I wasn't allowed to eat in their dining room. And I really felt as though I was imposing on them. In the end, unfortunately, I did go back home. And that broke down, my social worker tried to advocate for me to tell them, you know, this is not the ideal thing, she should not be going home. And she just wasn't heard. And within four weeks of them putting me back home, who was back in the care teams office demanding to be placed somewhere else anywhere else, because my situation was that bad. I have hidden disabilities. So for me having a chronic pain condition that you know, flares all the time, from one day to the next, my strength levels are different. The level of advocation that I can also offer myself is different as well, there are some times where I'm able to speak clearly and flippantly. And there's other days where I can't even string a sentence together. So having those experiences really impacted me or impacted on me as a person, because those who are thought that were there to support me and those that told me, they're there to support me, they weren't, and I was all alone. So I can completely identify with how both of you have gone through the situation. And same with the renting. If I was to go into private renting, I could not afford it, I have not been able to work for a numerous amount of years due to my hidden disabilities. And I've definitely don't have savings. I do not know what a rainy day fund is, that does not exist in my vocabulary. So it's really about the means. And the intention is there, I'd love to have savings, I'd love to have a private pension, I'd love to have private health care, but I just cannot afford it. And especially now in times where the cost of living crisis is just, it's just rising. And it's just continuing. Thank you for sharing as a real strength in that what you're describing to me, as upsetting as it is, it's not shocking. This is a very, very normal experience to feel like a social outcast for a crime you didn't commit. We as children had no control on being placed in care that was somewhat decided by local authority. And it's sort of like your phone deepened. And you're all of a sudden have all these responsibilities and to you have to survive, we have to adapt. So I think everyone gets to the point where we accept that this is our reality. Thank you for sharing what you said management Adam, winter is so important because you know we have certain lived experiences and when you have certain experiences your your outlook is very different to somebody else. And people don't take into consideration that actually, the way you see the world is very different to someone else in the world. And then you're being judged on for seeing it one way but you never had any control over that, you know, and if you're constantly in survival mode, you don't even know what it's like to be peace. You don't even know what it's like to not worry about money and bills. The first thing we're thinking about is how we're gonna pay the bills. Can we afford to live you know, we have to look at the next day we have to look at finances we have to plan ahead. We I'm never able to relax. And so I think it's important that, you know, when others, you know, who've never had to struggle who've never had to, or in that way in terms of survival, like, you don't appreciate what a blessing is to have a roof over your head to have cooked hot foods, you'd be able to have a shower, to be able to, you know, even have a mobile phone or have money on your oyster even or even have money in your bank, like, until you're in a position where that is a luxury is quite daunting. And then you're also being judged as a young person for something that you didn't even, it wasn't even your choice. And then the corporate parents who meant to look after us and be there for us, it seems like when you hit 18, they're nowhere to be seen. And then, depending on where you live, it's kind of like a postcode lottery, and not every service knows about other organisations that can help them support you. And so the fact that they don't work together is a problem, it's an issue, because, you know, if there are services out there that are meant to help them support us, we should, they should all work together to help us because, you know, we're gonna go up, and we're going to be next generation. And if we're not, okay, you know, and we're not, we haven't healed, we haven't been supported, it's going to affect, you know, the future, and it's gonna affect people around us. So I think it's important to invest in young people, you know, to help support them as they should, because that is our duty as our corporate parents to make sure that we're safe, happy, you know, heard, and it's a shame that we have to get advocates for fight on our behalf. If we know about advocacy, you know, a lot has to change. So, yeah, I completely agree with you. And I just want to mention the fact that it actually was my choice to go into care. So when I was 15, I was actually fleeing the violence that was in my home and the issues. And I went to seek advice from someone that worked not in the local authority, but like an advice service. And this person had expressed to me that the fact that my parent wasn't in the country at the time, I was alone. And what I was actually going through the fact that no one was actually listening or hearing what I had to say, and they advised me to seek a lawyer. And I went into the social housing team, I'd gone into the, you know, the children's care team. And I was laughed out of the building at the time when I told them my story and what I was dealing with. And that was what drove me to end up listening to this person and going to a law firm. And at the time, I got free representation. Because I was under a certain age, I took all my documents with me everything that I could think of, and I spoke with the lawyers, and they took my case, they ended up writing to my local authority and let it they let them know that they were actually violating a specific law from the child act of something, some 19 Something, children, right. And that actually is what caused me to get into social care. The fact that you had to go to that extent, to be able to be heard was absolutely terrifying, because at the time, I was also hidden, homeless, I was sofa surfing, I was sleeping on the couch at my friend's house, my mail was going to a different address. And at school, I'm showering in the bathroom, by using the sink, going in a little bit earlier, or waiting till my peers leave so that I could use the bathroom having a hot meal in school was like the only way that I ate at times. So I can completely identify with what both of you are saying about almost slipping through the cracks. That's what I'm hearing, I just wanted to add one quickly about slipping through the cracks slipping through the cracks. You know, being under the radar, I think is so important. Because, you know, many people have this idea of care Tracy Beaker, but that's not the idea of what it's like for other caregivers, or sometimes, you know, sofa surfing, there's different. There's different outlooks on homelessness to different young people. And I think when you're in such a vulnerable state, and then you know, the people that are meant to help you aren't there, you know, we have to understand that there's reasons why young people fall through the cracks, or they may go down certain routes or Yeah, even to, you know, decide to not want to be in this world and in one is that we have to address that issue is that, you know, as young people as people, we need support. And if you don't give that person support, if you look away, turn a blind eye, you don't actually help them. I think, you know, it's gonna have catastrophic, you know, effect. And I think it's important to listen to your person, when they say they need help, or to see if they're struggling and on offer that support and advice because you never know what that can mean to them in that moment. With consequences of not being heard, from a really young age, you've placed on the so much pressure and it gets to a point where you need it escape. And something that's easily available is alcohol, drugs, relationships, and once you enter that world of numbing, it can be very difficult to surface to a level mind and be able to advocate for yourself and once you engage in in that sort of world, you're viewed as someone who is not worthy of their support. And it's really sad and disappointing because you're merely just someone trying to survive trying to navigate things that no one should ever really have to navigate. I really identify with you cry. I kind of grew up not planning past the age of 60. Of course, I never saw a future. Because this is the way I felt, I felt like I would not be able to take it. But I never expected to sit here today and be able to have this conversation exactly who I am today and who I was when I was 15, or two different complete characters, and I have been working on that trauma for over 13 years, and I'm still working on it today, and it probably will never go it's something that's a part of your identity. And it's, you have to learn to accept it for a long time, I was ashamed of being classed as homeless. And I didn't tell my friend and didn't tell, it was really hard to advocate for myself. And even when I did, there's a really big lack of understanding, it's not just a roof over my head is gone. And even if I do have one for the near future, it's I feel a lack of purpose, and I am you become a product of your environment. And if you don't have those core values there, and sometimes you need that given to you, you need a support system, we're social beings, and that should be recognised. And a structured support system is something that should already have been there from day one, it's I don't understand why systems and policies are surprised that they have such an increase in drug usage and mental health. It was always dead, it just ignored it for as long as possible. Now look at it as a crisis isn't sometimes it's like, they wait until it gets bad. And it's like that is that's horrible. You know, you shouldn't have to wait until you get bad you should help get there in the beginning. Because you know, to stop that, you know, and I think it's important to like to get certain support, you have to be in desperate circumstances. And I think that's horrible. Because it's like, no, this person want to help before to help prevent this, and you can't help them until they're in dire circumstance. And I just think that's wrong, because surely you'd want to help in the beginning, when it starts rather than wait for it to escalate. Because in that thing, that's when things you know, get worse. And I think, you know, one of the solutions is like, when people being trauma informed schools, you know, colleges, six forms you need, you know, family, you know, slowly a society of people being trauma informed. And, you know, you know, even after you leave care at North all centre point and having that support system, or a group of people who you can call on to help with maybe education, housing, your rights, maybe someone to be able to speak on your behalf if needed, I think that could be a good solution going forward. Thank you so much, Louise and ekra, what would have made your experience easier. I think having someone to go to having, I was grateful enough to have a really good personal advisor. And she, I would even describe her as like God said, and she really advocated for me and protected me, I think, even though she never directly told me, she might have been through x, y and z, that connection was there. And that connection was unspoken. And if there's someone who doesn't have that experience, it makes a difference. And she ended up having to leave, and it happens. But losing that person and not having someone to replace her immediately. Or reach that level of support. It broke me I didn't have another person advisor for about three months. I had things like college extensions to catch up and I'm having to contact the Duty team which is a random person each day. And it's a very formal interaction for what is an emotional problem. And empathy is a chance. I think at the time, you know, I may have looked like I was functioning but actually I was struggling so bad. I would cry every single night just been kicked out 18 I was doing like my dream course that I fought really hard to get in its sixth form I loved it it was the best thing that I could ever you know want and I really wanted to pursue like you know the theatre I wanted to go to like a drama school but I wasn't given that support to help me thrive and because of that my grades My Grades dip, you know so low to the point that I didn't think they could get that low because my home life was affected my personal life having to be kicked out at have to start from scratch, you know have to move into a new area a new accommodation with people you have no I did have to kind of fend for yourself and get to grips of credit scores and money. It was daunting, it was very scary for me and I couldn't even concentrate on my work. And my teacher was like, you know, you're gonna have to leave six one because, you know, I'm not keeping up with my grades. I'm not not meeting the quotas, but actually, I'm having to think about my safety. I'm coming home, the front doors open, because it was a flat chair, you know, I'm thinking about, you know, oh, you know, when I get home normal checking if am I alive? Am I okay? And the scary thing is like, you can get slipped under the radar, I could have gone to Brighton and back, and nobody would have known like, and it's quite sad, because we are vulnerable. And when you support, yes, I may have just turned 18. But I was no way ready to move out. You know, I was forcing too deep, and I had to swim. And I think it's important that what would have helped me is having that support, knowing that I can call on them, they can help support me, they need to give me certain shooters, you know, contact me to make sure that I'm a right, you know, come round support me and help me because I want it to thrive. I want us to do that course. But they didn't give me that support to help me they kind of left me on my own. And I'm lucky to you know, to be here today. But I think more support in a more understanding and you know, more signposted from other organisations to be able to support and help where maybe they don't, that's not the expertise. Yeah. I think when you come forward as a young person, your opinion is second guessed, if you're going against a teacher, or a social worker, they're going to believe the person who has a formal or formal title. And even when having advocation. For you, I had a form tutor that just didn't get it. And it broke me in it. It there was days where I just couldn't get out of bed. My from where I lived before. And where I got moved, my college was about 10 miles from where I lived. So travel was expensive. I had to use my overdraft to go into to go to college. I had one grateful teacher, one teacher that was great, grateful enough to have sat down with me and listen, I told her what was going on. And she never, like stopped my assignments being cut that a pass because it was late, there was one assignment where I had submitted it on the last day of college, and I put so much effort into it. And I got the highest grade. But I partly got that high grade because I had that advocacy and that support and a belief in me. And with the other assignments, they were just, you've taken too long, we're gonna have to stop you there. If those people were put in my shoes, I don't think they would have even got the assignment done. That achievement in being able to get for your day to day activities, going up for breakfast, showering, cleaning your space that needs to be celebrated. I was in the same position as both of you, thank you for sharing. I was just as I put myself in care. I was staying with a family family friend, well, the friend school friend, and it was her family. And they were trying to find me an actual placement to go to and things were just getting really hectic, I was suffering from a lot of bullying and things were just really, really bad. And they ended up telling me that I had to leave my business engagement course. And my business business administration course, my teacher tried to fight for me and advocate for me, she was the only person that spoke up on my behalf, she could see that if I was able to finish that course, I would have gotten a star going from that switch of having a social worker to then turning 16. And then having a personal advisor, I never understood the difference in the change in the name. I just felt like it meant that they took away the responsibility of actually checking in and advocating for me. And at the time, I really wanted to stay in college and I really wanted to finish that course. But I also constantly had the thought of Where's money coming from? Where is my income gonna come in from I am not access, I'm not able to access any bursaries. I'm not able to access any grants, I don't have that external support. And even being on benefits is just not going to help fund my lifestyle. And I'm having to think about well, with the miniscule qualifications I currently have, what salary can I earn? And where can that take me? One of the questions I'd love to ask you both is if you are a Housing Minister, what changes would you make this could be, you know, something small, it could be something big or something that would have personally helped your situation. Think recognition is something that comes to mind. Being a person being able to see beyond a case beyond an a4 piece The paper to look at you, despite you, you happen to go through maybe 70 cases a day, this is a person's life. And that's your job, you need to acknowledge that this is a very real person who's got a lot on the line. And it's such a shame that you guys have had to give up your education and what sounds like your dreams. And it's almost like, they expect you to stay in an education for you to access forever support, but they're doing everything they're leaving, you know, choice. I think it's important policy makers that actually go and see their work in action to actually visit, visit different sides visit, talk to young people, and actually take an empathy led approach, because when it's a piece of paper, it's so easy to just kind of tick boxes. And when you actually meet that human being, you understand, actually, okay, not everyone is able to do certain things, some people's mental capacity may not be able to take on what they're taking on. And education is a big part. But, you know, they need to support you know, young people especially like, because the way I see it is that people say, leave your home life at the door. But in reality, that's not the case at all. When we work, school education. A lot of the time young people are coming into school, with circumstances we have no idea about will never be able to understand. And instead of being supported, they're being punished if they misbehave if they act out. But sometimes young people acting out is the way of them oxen for help. And I think it actually took a minute to actually go and see the young people to see the accommodations to actually understand like their history, then they would make a different judgement, a different approach. Because if it was their child, I'm sure they would try everything to support them and advocate for them. And if they are corporate parents are they not only have the duty to, you know, look after us as they would their own kid? Yeah, I had the privilege to speak to MP Jonathan Ashworth, a few months ago, and that was in my capacity as a youth ambassador. And I was able to speak to him. He's a shadow cabinet for DWP. And we were speaking to him about how the system is currently set up. And the requirements like you mentioned earlier, different landlords, private landlords have different requirements and can set out different rules and different criteria. And I think for me, one of the biggest barriers I've had is the benefit system is the fact that I've almost felt criminalised socially, because I'm on benefits. Like, there's this big shame, yes, around it, this this stigma that I carry. And I think even being you know, my property isn't a council property. It's a it's a housing association. And no one explained the difference to me what that actually meant the difference between the Council and Housing Association. And even when it came to advocacy, there's different they have different responsibilities, your local authority and a housing association, I was told not to bid on a property that has service charges, because the care team, you know, wouldn't, they would just wouldn't allow it because it would go on top of the rent. And I would have to pay for the service charges. And it's only the sole net rent that's covered. So I think there's things that we need to look at, because although I received my property eight, nine years ago, when I bid on it, there was no service charges. As of last year, there are now service charges on that property. And those service charges are they go to maintaining the upkeep of the hallway, the lighting, fire extinguishers and other things like that. And when you do not have a broad budget, or extra money, or that rainy day fund, that increase in rent, that increase in in new charges like that, there it takes food out of your mouth and out of your cupboards. And recently, I heard something that just really resonated with me, which was there isn't one fix. There are so many grey areas because there's so many different shades of grey. And I really, really liked that because I think sometimes when we speak to these policymakers, they speak about things in a one track mind. They don't, you know, like I said, Accra, you might have 70 cases on your desk. These are not ones and zeros. These are real people. And if we don't have a holistic a real person, people facing approach, then we're not going to be able to get rid of these issues that we have. Now when I tried to contact my local authority about my rent or different things. There is no human for me to speak to because there's no phone number, right? But for now, the way my local authority is set up in the past year and a half, they've removed the phone numbers. So I can't even speak to a person or a different person. They don't Don't get back to you, I now have to access the online portal, which I have to make sure I'm have access to internet as well. And internet poverty is very real for me, because I just cannot afford to consistently pay every month for my internet. And it's not a priority in comparison to some of that food and water. And I think a lot of the time as well, when we talk about shopping and groceries, we don't mention cleaning products. We don't mention personal care, there's no education on how to clean an assault, crude, right? Because you'd expect that you should know. But that's dependent on how you've grown up, did you have someone to tell you to clean up after yourself or not? Some people did it, some people did. And have to live and share a space for other people who don't have the same personal hygiene standards as yourself. Or having to be that person who can't keep up. It's, it's difficult. On both sides, there's no winning in that situation. But it is, is as simple as saying you should put this much on use this product sponge cloth, this one works better. And that probably take around 15 minutes, and give a real life skill to an individual. But it's not acknowledged at all. I think it's also like cooking, like, when I moved into my accommodation, didn't know how to cook, I burned the rice, I had to go on YouTube, and we'll find out how to cook rice. Something as simple as turning the oven on I didn't even know what a difference to which so the other men luckily freeze like I do now. But these basic things and also shouldn't be safety issue because if you turn on the wrong thing in the oven, or you've got a fire hub electric hob, that's also a safety risk. So it's like even a washing machine or certain pipes go certain places. And I think it's important that we have young people have that basic knowledge of you know, how to cook, how to clean how to, you know, run a household or how to, you know, make their bed, how to even you know, if you put dark and light they're gonna get the colours are gonna get mixed up, no one tells you about a colour sheet. No one tells you the different water temperatures mean, no one tells you what this product does. And so I think it's so important to have these basic skills which should, which should be shouldn't be a luxury, they should be a priority. And I feel so think in terms of homelessness and why maybe young people can't keep tenancy. Okay, let me give example, when I first moved into the service, I struggled paying service charge, I wasn't working at time, I was finding it hard to get a job, I didn't have a CV. So I was kind of I was in arrears with service service charge. And luckily, I was moved to different combination. And they helped me pay it off bit by bit did a payment plan. But if they didn't, I would have been homeless again. So the thing is, I wasn't taught how to manage budget or manage money. So then some young people might get kicked out or be evicted because they can't manage their money. They've never had that much money in their life, or Universal Credit. Depending, you know, you might get sanction if you miss an appointment, I was in sixth form, they wanted me to come to appointments, I'm on my course I wasn't able to come I was sanctioned. There was time when I was pregnant, I had morning sickness, I was woman and I couldn't come by I was sanctioned. I had no money for the whole month. Luckily, I had my sister to help and support me. But that was scary having to go off with 20 pounds the rest of the month. And then my rent wasn't paid. I was in arrears for a whole year. And they took money out of my benefits to pay for it. And it was while I was looking for jobs, like I was trying, but I wasn't supported, I was kind of just kind of left to go. And it wasn't until I took action last year to actively seek out work. Because, you know, at the end of the day, you know, with the whole inverse credit system is, you know, if you can't live off of it, it's not your 50 pound a week, I mean, my guess I'm not sure it's 110 pound mom going up, my rents gone up three times within the last two years. So actually, you know, the system doesn't really say to help them support people, but people are struggling, and the money they're getting paid is not enough. Or you know, and I think it's important to help support people into work and also during and after and understand that some people might have chronic chronic hidden disabilities, like you were talking about mental health issues, they might have a traumatic thing happened to them. But then exactly Oh child. So please don't let people do want to work, but they're not supported to and so they might lose their tenancy because they're not having someone who's going to help support them and eat at the most. But if I was actually in a position of policy, some of the things I do is I create a safety period for Kellyville is particular because because why is it that is the first resort for a caregiver to end up in such a dire situation. For one, I'd create a safety period where six months you can claim benefits and you can work and you can save up and that over time becomes decreased so you can build something and be offered financial support. And in terms of the actual environment itself, I'd make a requirement for the walls to be white, the carpet to be a colour that matches it. Have a nice, neutral blind colour and a good light that's at a plant. And I'm sure that we can get someone to like donate a plant, it wouldn't cost a lot, even if we did pay for it. But those sorts of things. It's a start. I totally agree with you. And eight, nine years on, I still don't have carpet in my home because the force of the floor space and the amount that it's going to cost, I can't afford it. So that is the position that I'm in at the moment. I completely agree. So it sounds like it Keira for MP. Thank you so much. Tom, what were some of the main recommendations from the research? I think, Well, I think you guys could probably have written the report much better than I could have. We've heard about the importance of stability, about the importance of a home boasts about the importance of like, having the right supports, to enable you to actually go and do the things you want to do, you know, thrive as a person. And those are the kinds of recommendations that that we talked about in the report. So obviously, in the report, we say, you know, there needs to be more social housing for that is accessible for young people. So young people, we know young people are usually allocated to kind of smaller properties like one bed, so like studios. So there needs to be more one bedroom studios, the late in the last year, one beds and studio social housing with at least developed in comparison to like two beds, three beds, four beds. So there's just a really small pool of housing, social housing that young people can apply for or be allocated to. We know also that local authorities are we recommend that local authorities make better use of their existing social housing. A lot of the time, social housing is kind of left vacant for a while, a lot of the time, you know, people under occupy or even over occupy their social housing. And that acts as a barrier to young people getting access to social housing. We also really recommend that, you know, the kinds of support that you mentioned, support around mental health support around enabling people in social housing to get jobs, but jobs that they want jobs that are meaningful to them. And to kind of really thrive in those jobs, we really recommend that local authorities do that for young people. And we, you know, this when it's all said than done, one of the really important things is actually you know, the amount of money that young people have in their pockets. So we recommend that the universal credit rate for under 25 years is made the same as for over 20 fives. We also recommend that young people with experiences of homelessness are excluded from paying paying council tax. At the moment, a young person in one borough might not have to pay it by the next borough, they do have to pay it, which is unfair. We also recommend that young people living in supported housing aren't disincentivize from entering into the workplace, peep young people living in social housing at the moment, there is a huge disincentive for them to work because it really affects their benefits and puts them in and puts them at risk getting into areas. Finally, we really recommend that we start to think more about providing more options for young people. So not just social housing, not just private rented housing, but what are the innovative housing products that organisations like centerpoint, but also lots of other organisations can create that young people can live in and begin their careers and start to develop themselves as people as human beings. So centre points Independent Living Project is a really good example of that is a project that enables young people to grow and develop and that and build up the savings is what you were talking about Tony, and you know, actually the value of having a rainy day fund so that they can then go and lead meaningful lives. So that's kind of the gist of the report. But obviously, people are more than welcome to read. Read the whole thing if they want to. I'm looking, looking very much forward to reading it. Yeah, I would love to take a look at it as well. I just want to give you all a massive round of applause. Thank you so much for just sharing your experiences and giving us your time today. Sadly, we have to bring the discussion to a close, but I want to thank all our lovely panellists for taking part and also to all our listeners and viewers. Please subscribe, like and share and read Tom's report. If you want more information, then visit our blog at www.centerpointe.org/blog. Don't forget Centerpoint offers free advice via the centerpoint helpline to anyone aged 16 to 25. who is homeless or at risk of homelessness. Call us free on Oh 808-800-0661 We're open Monday to Friday 9am to 5pm. You can also leave us a message on our website at www.centerpointe.org.uk/youth homelessness slash get help now.