Accessing and Sustaining Higher Education

This month, former and current residents will discuss access to higher education. 
Currently, just 6 per cent of care leavers aged 19-21 go into higher education, and those that do are nearly twice as likely to drop out as their peers. 

At Centrepoint, almost 40% of the young people we support are care leavers, but all of the young people we support will experience some barriers to accessing higher education whether that be financial, educational, social, mental or a combination.

A recent survey by Nationwide shows that two-thirds of students are struggling to pay bills or have fallen behind on their rent, prompting growing numbers to borrow money or use overdrafts as the fear of homelessness rises.
Not only that, but nearly three-quarters (73 per cent) have had to borrow money from family members to pay for essentials such as food and rent in the past year, while four in 10 have relied on their overdrafts to cover these outgoings.
More than one in five (22 per cent) said they knew someone who had become homeless in the past year due to financial difficulties, while one in seven worry about becoming homeless themselves.

What more can be done to support young people like those that we support access and sustain higher education? In a cost-of-living crisis, this discussion is more pertinent than ever.

Former resident and Centrepoint Trustee, Darren Douglas, talks to Centrepoint service users, Nadi and Noor. Nadi is just about to start university and Noor is just about to graduate. They discuss tips and tricks, mental health, support and other ways to get the most out of your university experience.

Transcript

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made the forecast from centre by young people for all people. Centerpoint is the UK is leading youth homelessness charity. at Centerpoint. We believe no young person's life should be defined by homelessness. We give young people the support they need to heal and grow no matter what. for over 50 years, we've been the centre point for change, personal and political. Everyone has their part to play with young people leading the way. This podcast has been created by young people with lived experience of homelessness will be shining a spotlight on some of the issues that affect us. We hope to challenge and change some of the stereotypes and bring others with us as part of a movement to end youth homelessness for good. Hello, and welcome to point made the centre point podcast by young people for all people. My name is Dan Douglas, and I'm the host of this month's episode where we'll be discussing access to higher education. We are recording this podcast on a level results day. So congratulations to everyone. If you've managed to secure a place a University of your choice, props to you. In today's episode, we'll be looking at the experience of accessing and sustain in higher education for vulnerable young people. Currently just 6% of care leavers, aged 19 to 21 go into higher education, and those that do are nearly twice as likely to drop out than their peers. at Centerpoint. Almost 40% of young people we support our care leavers. But all of the young people we support will experience some barriers to access and higher education, whether that be financial, educational, social, mental, or a combination. That isn't hard enough. Our cost of living crisis means that young people are even more anxious about sustaining higher education to paint a bit of a bleak picture. A recent survey by Nationwide shows that two thirds of students are struggling to pay bills are falling behind on their rent, prompting growing numbers to borrow money or use overdraft as a fear of homelessness raises. Young people supported by centre point have already experienced homelessness or trauma or both. They want to embark on something that moves them forward, not backwards. They may not have family members they can turn to if they find themselves in crisis. But this is not all doom and gloom. Things are tough. Yes. But we are going to be looking at what support is available, and how you can save money and general advice on your journey into higher education. So on the panel today, we have myself Baron Douglas, I am a former Centrepointe resident, who is now an advisor manager at Imperial College London, as well as a centre point trustee. And I also have two former centre points service users. And I'll go to one of them first. Hi, everyone. My name is Nora, I was being provided with flooding support from centre points. I'm currently in my third year of university soon graduating and I'll be becoming a social worker. So I'm looking forward to it. Hi, guys, my name is Nadia. I'm a former Centerpointe resident that's moved on to independent living. I will be starting university in September at London Southbank University to study, psychological counselling. And I've actually been told today that I secured my place in London Southbank. I'm really excited to start, but I'm also kind of nervous. So I hope this podcast really gets me started to fully embrace the university life. Great to meet you both today, I'm really excited to actually present this podcast. As you as I've already mentioned, you know, I work at a university and now I'm very passionate about students getting the best experience that they can. And I think it'd be a really good conversation to have today to talk about sort of some of my experiences as a as a staff member at university here a little bit from you, Nora, about sort of how your first two to three years have been and then also kind of like help nadie in preparation into September slash October start. So yeah, so I think where the place might be to start is first of all, congratulations, Nora, obviously, you're gonna be getting your degree soon. How are you feeling? Are you looking to stay in higher education, maybe perhaps do a master's? Or are you thinking about going into the big wide world of work and sort of taking that next step in terms of your career development? Well, I think that's the biggest dilemma, isn't it? Do you want to study more? Do you want to get to the real world that you've been planning for your whole life? So I mean, for now, I'm thinking because of social work. I have already secured a job. Oh, excellent. Great news. Yes, I'm just going to graduate do my PhD dissertation and I'll be going to that job. As a social work trainee, and so I get my registration number. So it's amazing. I don't have to wait very long. But after that I'm definitely going back to education that'd be a master's that be specialising in systemic therapy, or I may literally just do a low conversion degree. Options. Brilliant. And for you nadie How are you feeling about obviously, now that you've, you've got your results? I hope you don't mind me asking how did you feel you're done. So I actually took a gap year after I finished I didn't really finish college, there was a bit of a dilemma. So I got to be willing to work. And I was thinking I wasn't even planning on going to uni. I was like, You know what, my life goal is to become a therapist or a psychologist. And I realised I couldn't do that through work. So I had to get a degree to be what I wanted. So I just wanted me just decided last year, hey, I'm gonna go enrol in a college that's not far from me and see how this year goes. It went absolutely amazing. It was the best experience I've ever had. I really was confident in the grades I was getting. I passed, and I got exactly the grades I wanted, had way more D's and distinctions than I needed. So I was very proud. And I'm really excited to go to uni. My sister's been to uni. She's a business graduate, and she seems to have had a good experience. So I have a similar spirit. Definitely. Well, as much as obviously University is about education and developing, you know, you get to me friends for life. And I think especially now as sort of like coming out of a, of a pandemic and going through sort of hybrid learning, I think, fingers crossed, I think we'll be back to a stage where now seminars will be packed again, there'll be lots of light sort of student activities. There's lots of like student groups to get involved in. And yeah, and you just kind of like embrace yourself within the sort of like the culture of the university as well. So just to look into that, how did you go about your selection process for some of the universities? I always wanted to go to Kingston University when I was in college, that was my unit of choice. But then I went to the open days for London Southbank. I heard really good reviews from my key worker. And she was like, No, you should go there. Check it out. So then I did and they had actually much better opportunities for me in London Southbank. And in terms of just comfortability. I was here. I've been here for 12 years, so I'm more comfortable in London. I kind of got scared from moving away from everything I noticed. I said, You know what? It seems like God is trying to tell me to just stay in London. Okay, so So basically, so you thought that London was basically the best spot for you? How was your experience? Nor was it was that similar in terms of like wanting to stay in London? Are you in London about the chance or? Yeah, so I am based in London and I'm definitely a London are. So no, I always wanted to stay in London, especially because I've got a younger sister and I wanted to stay closer to her because both of us grew up in care. And she was still going to be living at the foster house. While I would have moved out. I wanted to be in close proximity to heart. So I applied all around London, andI my dream uni was Goldsmith. I loved it. I was so excited. But last minute, so there's something about a University of West London was calling my name I said something about is just so familiar. And funny enough, when I started going there, I realised my first foster home used to be 15 minutes away. Really? Like it was a circle moment for me. Um, but no, I was very happy with the uni I chose Yeah. And they were very supportive. And they have been told now even so, yeah. Oh, that's brilliant. So you know what, I didn't know that you actually went to the university was done actually used to work there. So yeah, I've worked there for three years between 2018 to 2021. Only 20. Yeah. Oh, wow. Crazy. Yeah, I probably know the campuses and maybe for some of the teachers, some of the staff members then yeah, yeah, definitely. Okay. I mean, I think this might be a good place to start then in terms of going to uni. What were things that you were maybe a little bit unsure about or didn't know how to access what what were those things that you felt actually immediately this is what I need and was it easy for you to find? I mean, for me, it was very last minute because I wanted to go uni my whole life. I knew my plan, but I assumed that I was going to be living with my foster carer. After applying and getting all my confirmations. I was told that she expects me to move out. Okay, so that meant calling up by person advisor very last minute and saying I need to go buy forks and spoons and I think a saucepan and do I need balls? Yeah. It was the weirdest conversations we were having now, because you're buying these silly things that you've never actually had to buy before. I think it's like, the biggest part of adulting. Okay, you need to buy every single thing for yourself, you can't just go into another cabinet to look for it. So that it was very rushed for me. So I had a lot of moments like that where I, I would literally be trying to go to sleep and I'd wake up and I'd write something in my notes again, oh, I need this as well, this as well. Okay. And of course, it's very daunting, because you're thinking, where's the money going to come from? All of this is quite literally, it feels like you're starting up your life again. Definitely. Just bizarre because, for example, for me, I wanted to say in London, I'm still in the same city yet. I feel like I'm starting over. So I think I think that kind of change can be very overwhelming. Definitely. And obviously, you mentioned about things to have like cutlery, sometimes simple things that we might take for granted. When you initially I'm not sure obviously the time period that you left to go to uni. But did you happen to maybe perhaps get any support in terms of like the CPE bursary Was that something that you managed to access at all? My situation was quite different than others. I didn't have any. I was referred to Centrepoint in my second year. So my first year I lived in uni accommodation second year, there's a new accommodation and I was supported by you know, the care leaving bursary from the council, my key worker and my external personal advisor, and all of that, and the bursaries from university and all. But second year, when my lease ended at my flat with my flatmates from university, I had to move in for the summer with my best friend and her family. So I was technically homeless. And it's really funny when, ironically, you feel at home somewhere, you're very comfortable yet you're technically homeless. That kind of instability was very confusing to me. Because I had everything around me, I could ask for anything, and it'd be cooked for me even. But at the same time, I can't have a home address, my bank has the wrong billing address. Yeah, looking for a job is a bit tricky. That's when I was referred to Centerpointe. And that's where I was given support by them. But unfortunately, because my academic year was finishing, I could only have the last instalment, but that's when Centerpoint got involved with me and I have been involved with them. Since then. Now, I have my own accommodation of a private rented flat with my sister, I moved into it after this two months with my best friend's family. But I get support from Centerpoint in regards to my key worker and everything else. And it's been lovely honestly. And just before I move over to nadie has that been like really pivotal 100% has been so pivotal for me, one thing that is very important to understand is that caregivers do really like a support system, and healthy long term relationships. But I'm someone who actually did have long term relationships and a support system. Somewhat off, you know, I had my best friend, I had her family I had have five sisters and her brother, they've you know, been my rock for so long. But that doesn't mean that they're professionals. So yeah, they love me, and they care for me, but they won't understand how I'm feeling in regards to being technically homeless. Yeah, I think that was only understood by the key worker at Centerpoint. They were able to provide me the right kind of support I needed. It's almost like they know what this is going to feel like for me before I even felt it. They provided me with a lot of stability at that time to professionals. That was super helpful. So now when I'm graduating till this day, I give them a call. That's really great to hear, you know, for me as a trustee is very warm in to hear your story as well. I think it's fair to say, you know, everybody sort of like mental health and well being is very important, particularly in what we see in the media, you know, coming through a pandemic, have you a been able to sort of access wellbeing support and how was being LinkedIn to Centerpoint helping you during some maybe tough times academically reviewing and maybe sometimes potential other issues that that might be affecting your well being how has that support been for you? I think even though mental health is something that, you know, we were gaining more awareness on it, literally by the hour by the day. Yeah, I think at the same time, this is a weird delusion that everyone knows how to access mental health services. When I talk to my friends and other peers, I realised they have no clue. And that makes me realise my privilege of just studying social work and I got lucky I know how to access the services. And I'm someone who has tried to access if someone has tried to access psychotherapy through NHS and I've not gotten any work anywhere with it. It's actually extremely difficult and I've waited over six months over eight months, I waited over a year sometimes for a certain you know, get off a certain waiting list to be assessed. Even Centerpoint was the only one where I can actually access support. Now I'm in psychotherapy and healthy relationship therapy. And it's been amazing. I think the profession Those that are so so good. So just quickly what what would you perhaps say it's obviously current centre point residents that are struggling with their well being? Where would you say for them to go? And and what sort of support can they expect? I think firstly, don't hesitate to ask for help. And secondly, don't wait for it to get that bad that you think that's not where I need help. A lot of the times, all I need is a conversation with my key worker with someone who has an anxiety disorder and chronic depression. I don't wait for to get back to a depressive episode I, if I have a little bad mood, which seemed a bit irrational to me, all I do is call up my key worker and I say to her, today, it's been a bit weird. I think it's because of this, this, this, I tried the factors. And sometimes it's just that you need to vent to someone professional. And they're able to, you know, give you the empathy and give you a good guide on how to move forward in your day. If you have a very good relationship with your key worker, I think that's so vital. Because my key worker can hear everything I'm saying to her and say, Oh, no, I think this is out of my remit. I think let's call in a therapist, or let's get you someone, let's get you some counselling. And she's only able to do that because I asked for that help. And I don't wait for it to get really bad. But I do think that's a habit a lot of young people probably have because of the NHS. Because with NHS when you access mental health services, you only get them when you're at a really bad point in your life. You don't get them when you're in need. You get them when you need protection and safeguarding unfortunately, I understand where it comes from. But that's the advice I would give everyone who is working with Centerpoint at the moment. So I think that's where Charles has come in very handy. And that's where if you can ask support there, go for it. The podcast from centre by young people, for all people. So sorry, nadie. Sorry. One of the things that you've obviously mentioned is that you're going to be going to Southbank University. And one of the positive things I can say is that I actually know some sort of great staff members in the in the Students Union there. And I think for me, that will be one of your first points of call, I think to to check out some of the activities that they do. They also have services such as an advice service where students can get support on a proliferation of issues, whether it's sort of like mitigation appeals and stuff like that. Initially, what I wanted to find out is what are the sort of the first few things that you would like that would help you feel a bit more settled before you begin your course? What are sort of the areas or services that you think you would like to interact with, and get any help or support and I think I can maybe like, give you some advice as to as to how you can sort of access that. I think one of my worries would be that because I'm an independent living at the moment. And it's kind of been very tough to find a job after I had to leave my last one, as Nora has mentioned already, the living crisis at the moment is ridiculous. And as a single person living alone, for the first time, having to pay for things and try and figure out how to get around this financially. I think that's one of my biggest concerns when it comes to uni. Definitely, I think one of the good things about university is that there are like sort of student part time jobs that you can get within different services. So if you're someone that's you know, likes catering, there's things doing catering, if there's some roles that are to do with supporting students sounds like taking them around getting them to know different campuses, there's roles like that. There's also roles for people that might want to work in a library, or there are like sort of like reception, duty roles, and sometimes are even roles where you can work on the weekends. I know you wanted to just come in there a second. No, I definitely really struggled to get a job as you didn't even have a job in my first year of university. It's just so hard. And even though you're right, there's so many jobs in the university. For some reason, they're very hard to get sometimes, depending on the university, of course, but two apps that really helped me was one is called Kupo. And others got placed. Because of course, applying for work is so exhausting, and sometimes very demotivating for people no matter what your age, no matter how much experience you've got. And place was add that I can be on my phone while I listen to music on the train. I'm just clicking apply, apply, apply. It actually works. I actually got a job to it. Cooper is an agency that is to an app. So one thing these agencies do, it's like people that pay you very well, they pay you around four pounds an hour. They like respect your time. So for example, while I can't get a temporary like a long term job, I'm going to these little little jobs here and there. And it's a one off job, but I'm making more than I would have probably made in a long term job. And it was watching me a bit while I still kept looking. So definitely look into that Nadi. And I think just just just to add to that as well. There are careers teams and universities as well. I definitely advise you to meet with them. So yeah, so you were saying, Nadia about obviously, those are some of the things that are making you slightly bit anxious about starting. What are the things that you're really looking forward to when you when you start Southbank? I don't know if this is gonna sound cliche, but I've always wanted to go to university, I've always wanted to, you know, have my laptop in my hand conduct studies, or sit down the lectures there. And, you know, just, I have this fantasy over how my uni life should be mostly based on movies and shows. I want to make it my reality. I think that's one thing that I look forward to. Definitely I know that I think Southbank is is, is one of the things in one of the top 10 or top 20 London universities for for modern living as well. And they've got really good facilities there. And, and they're based, they have different locations across sort of the southeast of London. You know, and I'm sure with the, with the course you're doing as well, you'll get to sort of like interact with going to many of those spaces as well. One of the good things as well, I know, it sounds a bit cliche, because but the library as well, like, you know, sometimes people think, Oh, it's a place where it's like really quiet. Sometimes that majority of the time it is quiet, but it's a great time. Well, I actually, like groups do get together study really well, like people have have lots of kind of like fun. But then also there's like serious study time as well. And, and the library is one of those places where you do really see that you do see like a great student vibrancy and community. But also you've got help that that that's at hand as well, I would just say I think, you know, finances are and we talked about, obviously, the cost of living and finance is really a big thing at the moment. And what's important is to see what you're eligible for all universities should have something called like discretionary support funds, it's genuinely for students that are going through difficult times. So whether it's something that's that you might need immediately. So if you're someone that's you know, living in private accommodation, maybe for the first few weeks, you haven't got your student loan, you'll be able to apply for a discretionary Support Fund, they give you the money, it's not a loan, where you have to pay it back. It's something just to kind of like help you have a period of time. Some universities also have like, a system, we can get like a laptop fund as well. So if you didn't have, you know, appropriate technology to be able to do your work, there might be access, where you can leave a loaner laptop for the year, just me like you borrow it. And then you know, after that, that year of study, you give it back, or that may be like you're funded to buy your own laptop. I think also as well, in terms of finances, there should be like a team called or service called student student advisors, or student support, there are ways that what you can get that sort of budget and techniques. Budgeting is really, really a good skill to apply, especially when you're at university because you know, it's easy to get carried away the first few weeks you meet and friends, you know, everyone wants to go out have fancy lunches. And then you know, six weeks later, you're like, you know, oh my gosh, the money's going a bit fast enough thought, you know, it's not just a skill for university. It's a life skill. So yeah. And then I know, obviously, we're talking about well being, there are counselling services at university institutions, there are also maybe people that have well being advisors as well. And one of the key things I really want to speak to anybody out there, especially if, if you have a learning disability, there are lots of services at universities that can help you with that. So whether you're someone that's got maybe like dyspraxia, dyslexia or any other sort of like learning disability, and you feel like you might find it difficult to cope with certain situations or with certain work, there are services out there that a help you with that, but also be you can get like adjustments as well. So for instance, you know, if you have a learning disability, you might be able to get more time on an examination or more time to hand in a particular piece of work. And there are also situations where, if obviously, something has happened in your life, and you've got an important piece of work to hand in or you've had an examination, it hasn't gone well, you can actually mitigate for that. And that means that if you were to actually fail that piece of work, you would get the opportunity to retake that work at a captive market if your mitigation application is successful. So those are few things I wanted to just highlight. No, you wanted to jump in. I think you've said so many important things and so many things I feel so strongly about. I think you starting off talking about eligibility and talking about there's so many things out there for caregivers, and for people who have you know who've been home Homeless before, I think the most important thing is a lot of people from such marginalised groups, they really get overlooked in society. And unfortunately, I do think that as a part of these groups, sometimes we're so used to it, we don't make enough noise for our rights, if that makes any sense. So, for me as someone, I do definitely identify more as a caregiver than I do, as someone who has experienced homelessness, even though it's totally changed my mindset and the way I live my life, but that I think I wouldn't have gotten where I have, if I didn't make enough noise and fight for my rights. If you feel like something you're doing doesn't feel right. For example, if you've been through something traumatic, and now you're doing an assignment, and something about that doesn't sit right with you, there is support out there. It's just you're just not being told about it. So you need to go talk to many different professionals until someone's listening. And I think that's a very big part of it. In regards to you talking about budgeting, I think everyone kind of knows we need to budget but they really don't know how to budget. Yeah, I think a lot of it comes down to food, actually, I've noticed. So living in uni accommodation, I've noticed a lot of people do not know how to budget and how to buy the right foods. Whereas there was me buying very healthy food, and they would think I'm spending a lot of money. But I know for a fact that we're spending probably a quarter of what they were purchased, you've got to be really smart with it. You've got to have your little life hacks, you've got to have your ways to find your vouchers, find new discounts, you definitely need to fill your body, otherwise, university is going to be just as harder. Also, I think one thing that people don't realise, and I was one of them. If you have a mental health condition, technically you are eligible for DSA, which is for disabilities. I think technically, we just don't think in our mind. No, you know, if I have depression and anxiety, I fall into the disability criteria. I get why you say that, I get why you think that but you do or you are eligible for DSA. And that's something that you will always find in the Student Finance website. Yeah, apply for it, get your support. Sometimes they can even help you with travel, as you said, with a laptop, with so much more with extra time, as you said, there's plenty and they will even advocate for you with your university. So University, whatever, sort of, as you said, you know, you can contact your university for all of this. That's a bonus, that's extra support. The DSA is technically you're right. So if you're eligible for it, go for it. Yeah. And just just to jump on what Nora was saying there, you know, do it ASAP, as soon as you can, you know, one of the things that I do see, having, you know, worked within a university is that, you know, sometimes processes applications can take a long time, you know, this is happening all across the country. So it's something that, you know, as soon as you can kind of like, get involved, you can also get assessed as well at your university. So you don't have not actually been assessed already. And you're someone that you know, thinks you potentially might have a disability, but you're not sure you can actually get assessed at your university. So, again, you know, I would encourage all students to do that. It's something that should be free at your institution as well. And I encourage every single person, whether they're a student, or going to be a prospective student, or thinking about going to university, being in contact with your students union is one of the most important things that as soon as you are a student of the institution, you are automatically a member of the Students Union, one of the first things you should be doing on enrollment day is finding out exactly how your students union can support you, your students union is vital. And one of the things that I think sometimes young people from marginalised backgrounds don't always do is it's happened to their students, you know, they think, oh, you know what, I go to uni, I do my course. And then I just go home and grind. And it's like, that's not necessarily what uni law should be about. It's about trying to tap into as much resources as possible to get the best out of that time and experience that you're there. The podcast from centre by young people, for all people. Nadi just wanted to cross over back to you. Obviously, you've mentioned about sort of the dream in your head of university and how it's going to be live on campus. We'll throw a laptop in your hand. How do you how'd you feel that Centerpointe have prepared you for this for this journey up till now. So I think Centrepointe definitely played a big role in my I'd say motivation to pursue further education. The manager at the centre point I was at was honestly the most helpful person ever. I literally tell everyone that she's a mother figure to me and because I felt like emotionally and everything she was always there for me. So when I had, you know, a really tough exam to get to she would actually sit there and talk to me through it. Not necessarily teach me at var kind of LM me tips on How to manage my emotions as well as the exam so that my emotions don't get the best of me to the point where you know I have, I'm a very, like, I overthink a lot like I will overthink a situation way out of proportion. So do not panic sit and have a chat with me. And when it came to uni, she, like, I'd say she gave me all the work to call me you know what to expect, and how to really go about things and in a sense kind of, to me to kind of paved the pavement for me so that I can kind of walk on it. And I'm very excited because I'm an extrovert, but I've oddly got social anxiety. So when I first meet a brand new group of people, I'm very, like anxious and very, like nervous. But when the ice is broken, or melted, I'm the most bubbly person I was taught. Everyone's is off summer kind of excited to meet people and kind of have that first aid over and bandwidth so they can be you know, the rest of the next three years with some people that I'll meet, you know, like, potentially, my friends forever? Definitely. No, that's so that's really great to hear. And if there was obviously you mentioned about sort of the service manager being like a big support for you, throughout your journey, what is maybe one of the something that they've maybe said to you, that's always kind of like a quote that's kind of that lived with you. And it's always been something positive that you might want to maybe share with the listeners as well that you think could be something for, for them to think about, especially if they want to consider going to university. She said a lot of things to me that have stuck with me, one of them being that the world is my oyster, and I can go anywhere with it. And you know, do whatever I want. And I think that was one of the things he said to me when I came to her girl very scared about starting college for the first time in a few years. And I was really overthinking everything. And I was like, because I had, it was pretty bad experiences in my last college. But I was very nervous. And she told me that and I kind of thought to myself, You know what? I don't have anything to be scared about. If I haven't tried it, you know, I can't give feedback on something that I don't know what it is. So she's helped me a lot in that sense. No, definitely. No, that's, that's, that's really, really powerful. And one of the things I would like to kind of like, ask both of you actually, I think it's something that I saw during my time when I when I was a resident of Senator point, centre point does a lot of like great things for young people. And I think that however, sometimes there are, there are some young people that they're a selling point that don't always take the opportunities that are available to them. And I personally think sometimes, you know, some of that comes down to maybe what they go for at the time, or sometimes that comes down to a bit of self belief. And you know, one of the things I wanted to get across today, especially if there's someone that's listening to this, for the first time, never even thought about going uni or even going into higher education or even further education, one of the things I would say is, you know, don't be scared, put all the fear to one side, and go for it. And the reason why I say that is because centre point is a point in your life where you do have the opportunity and the power to actually change around your circumstances. And sometimes it doesn't always feel like it's real, because you feel like oh, you know, you're sometimes in a place of worry, the future doesn't always seem clear. You know, because sometimes, you know, you maybe know that you're in accommodation for a certain period of time. But one of the things I would like to get across to anybody that's out there listening today is that go for what you want, and use the services that are available and the great staff members that are there that can help you get to the next step. It's about sort of building blocks, but also building on your potential everyone has potential in some sort of way. And it's about finding that within yourself, what you're good at what you really like doing and being around people that are going to help sort of cultivate that sort of like attitude mentality and also like pushed your talent as well. But I just wanted to hear from you know, the and also know about your perspective on what I've said as well. So I, I think for me, personally, my personal experience when I first was introduced to centre point, I was going through a really tough time in my life. I like to call it the bottom of the barrel like I was at the worst point A I felt like I lost everything I lost myself and as much as I was smiling in front of people and you know, being that happy, bubbly, Nadi I've always been, I think inside I was very sheltered. So when I came to set up when I was really scared, I couldn't trust anyone. I didn't know who's good for me or who's bad for me. And then I started talking to members of staff and honestly They were the best people like, I will never forget the members of staff that I met, when I first came to the Senate when they basically broke my, like the wall I had, and they told me like, you know what, there are people out there that actually care for you, that will help you, you know, stop your life and show you that is more than before. And Emotionally, I think they took me over, like a really bad place. And I don't even think I can express this to them. Like, as much as I want to, there's no worse explain how much they've literally showed me, you know, the purpose of life. Like, I've always been ambitious, but at that time, in my life, I, there was nothing, I didn't know who I was, I didn't know what I liked, I didn't know what I wanted to do. But the manager and the staff there really gave me that sort of push to see myself and now I feel like I am where I am. Because they showed me that you can be what you want. If you actually, you know, put your mind to it, and you let people help you, I think that's the most important thing to know is that people want, they want to help you, but they can't help if you don't let them help you. You know, I've seen people in services that, you know, that ask for help, and always by themselves, and then they leave the service. And a few years later you hit or so and so is not doing so well. And it's like, they didn't accept the help. And it's understandable. You know, when you go through certain things in life, you have a like, blocked off everything, and you just have to let you have hold on to the hand. You know, that's up to you. So I like that. Hold on to the hands. I like that. No, did you do what did you want to add anything there? Yeah, sure. Um, I think my experience is quite similar to noddies. Definitely the bottom of the barrel like it was, I was at my worst. And I would like to say, I've seen my worst before, I didn't think it'd be get this bad. But what it did, I mean, to sum it up, centre point in the professional though, quite literally did save my life. I didn't think I would be here this year. So I was very surprised. You know, I think first of January, I was still around, and then like hitting my birthday. And that's why like, this year, my birthday was so important to me, I didn't think I would be here, it wouldn't have been possible without the professionals I Centerpoint 100%, my key worker, the dietician, everyone else there they've done honestly, such good people such good souls. And honestly, what it's taught me is you just really need to welcome failure. And I'm not there yet. Like I'm still learning and I'm still working my way through, I truly believe in the advice I'm giving right now. But you really need to welcome failure, because otherwise you're not gonna get anywhere, you have to fail for you to get better. I've gotten to that point where I sometimes like things are going well. And deep down like I don't mind failing, this one is kind of exciting, because I'm gonna get to try hauled off. So I have a very different than a weird Outlook to it now. And I find joy in the fact that I get to try again and put my own into again, that'd be an exam, that'd be a little test anything, it's good to know that I have I'm allowed to mess up sometimes as well. Because I think there's this some people I can't speak for everyone, there's this very unrealistic moral compass that we start living by when you've been to one hard time. So when when you've been through plenty, you just think you don't have any space to make mistakes. And that was definitely me. And I think my key worker definitely taught me that I can be the 22 year old I am I can make my mistakes, I can be silly. And because she was never worried about me making the big mistakes. So he was like, you know, live a little. And she was always very, she I think she brought my childhood back to me, which I never I would say never had. So she has been so so amazing. And I definitely do resonate with what Nadi said like as she was definitely like a mother figure to me, like, looking back now. Like when I'm doing my dissertation, I keep thinking about her. And I'm like, I want to invite her to my graduation. Like I wouldn't be here without her. She's seen me through so so much. And for me, the thing was, I was so bad in certain parts of my life, I couldn't really be pushed. Like I could hear her voice and I knew she knows there's nothing to push her. There's nothing to encourage her up. This is just her right now. But that was the best part that she stuck by me through those horrific months. Like she didn't demand change for me. She knew it was bad. So she was like, alright, it's bad. I'm gonna sit with you and we'll go through it together. And I think that's why I appreciate it so so much from her. So looking forward now, definitely always welcome failure, get comfortable with it, because you're gonna see it. You were very critical people you know, as humans. You're going to Find failure in your life anyways. So why are you so upset about? Like, just welcome. It's okay. And honestly, it made university so much better for me if it wasn't for her, I wouldn't have graduated from even my second year, let alone did my dissertation today. So honestly, all props go to her. And I'm so grateful for. That's great. I hope that they listened to this as well, I hope. literally an hour after I got a call for the podcast, she called me and she said, I'm so excited to listen to. I was like, it's not today. I'm so excited. She wants to turn fine. That's excellent. That's excellent. Yeah, I think lastly, because I know, we're gonna we're gonna wrap up shortly. But I think you know, one of the things that many university students have said to me, during my time in higher education is that, you know, getting through the three is getting through the dissertation. Yes, it has been sometimes for some people, it's been one of the hardest things to do in their life, but, but also I think, getting through it has made them feel that I can do anything. And I think, you know, yes, going to university is a challenge. But it's an exciting challenge, you know, and I think as long as you sort of like able to access the support, find out where you could get that helping hands, and, and find a community of friends that you can be involved with. Ultimately, you will have an amazing time at university. And whenever you might feel that sometimes you can't make it or you're feeling a bit down, there is always something or someone that is there to help you. I think personally, like, the journey is what you make it ultimately the podcast from centre by young people, for all people. While we're coming to the closing stages now, and I just wanted to find out from both of you, what was the reason why you chose your course or, you know, I'm really curious to know, like, the reasons behind there, and and what you hope to go on once you've got your degree. So at first I will, from when I was a, as my memory starts to be honest, I've always wanted to have a profession where I help people. And then at some point in my life, I really wanted to be a detective, I wanted to bring justice to the world and all of that stuff. And that's before, you know, I started realising that, hey, I need to figure me out before I can help someone else. And in the process of me being helped and you know, figure myself out. I tried to go to therapy and get, you know, help for the unspoken things that I've been through, I guess. But I found that the therapy that I was getting, I couldn't relate to any of my therapists, I've had a few. And I thought that because they, in a sense, didn't go through what I went through, or I felt like they just didn't understand me and they didn't understand the help that I needed and the professional help that they were, I guess taught to give. It wasn't personalised to me. So then, at some point, I think it was maybe the year before last year, I realised I want to be a therapist for young people so that I somewhat can relate to them and I could give them a help that is more individualised and customised to their personal needs. So that's what I'm starting counselling. However, I do want to work in the more gruesome side. And I want to work with serial killers and know why serial killers think the way they think and what form has led to that. So it's a bit of both, I guess, because I've chosen will open those votes for me. Good. Well, I'm sure I'm sure that I'm sure the journey is going to be going to be really, really great. And I'm curious to find out so you definitely have to send in math to do a dissertation for Senator point, you know? How about you know, I'm just so excited. It's just her noddy's reasons and her first the whole thing. I love it. I love her. She's so honest about it. Like I'm what the serial killers when I was a little girl. You know, my passion. I love that for you, honestly, and I'm so excited for you. And hearing everything from Maddie has been amazing. For me, growing up in foster care, I like hit 1617 and my whole career path changed. I wanted to be a neurosurgeon my whole life and I was like, Okay, I'm going into medicine. I'm doing it. My mom was super supportive. She said, You choose your career, I'll pave the way. And then at 16 I call her off and unlike Mom, there's a problem. She said what I say think of what I do social workers have done and I've had that dilemma for a year and she's thinking to me Are you kidding me? I thought you wanted to go into medicine. I planned your life after the I know I'm doing social work. So for me the council that was looked after weird like that was like my second home I was always there doing some weird work experience was so many professionals New Media already. So it just it was destiny for me I would say I think social work just taught me so much about myself. That was so important to me. It naturally complements my personality, but it gave me very good boundaries and taught me how to, you know, pick the right people for myself, as Nancy said, Centerpointe kind of reminds us of things just shows you things that you probably didn't think what problems and even the centre point did that for me, it goes hand in hand with my course. So it's just been amazing. And I'm so excited to finish and actually be practising. Brilliant. And just just lastly, before I round up, how'd you feel that your placement when in order for you to because you spoke about obviously getting the job now, but how useful or beneficial was your placement? I mean, I'll be honest, my advice is gonna sound super weird, and probably mean to ever listen to it. But I'm helping them I promise you. Yeah, I hope you get problems in your placement. Honestly, no, it's the best thing ever. I did my first placement and there was one problem. And because I think your 20s, you think you've got yourself figured out, you have no clue who you are. And that's very hard to deal with. Because everyone around you puts responsibilities on you, you're adulting, it's very hard being in placement, I hope people have a little bit of a problem here and there. Because that's when you get to decide the kind of person you want to be. Those are my little tests where I had to stand up for myself. And I did that. And I, I say that it's good that it's in placement. Because you've got University backing you, you've got your legal team from the University, your personal tutor, if you're lucky, your supervisor, practice educator from the placement. And you need that. So you've got that army. And I would stand up for myself very confidently, because I have someone to rely on. That was my support system. So I hope everyone takes advantage of that stand up for yourself, do not do that thing while you're thinking, Oh, it's a 70 day placement. Let me just, you know, brush this off, know why no one's going to fight for you if you don't fight for yourself. When I wasn't happy with something I raised that and I was respected and appreciated for that. And it's nice to be acknowledged for standing up for yourself professionally. Well, wise words said. Really? Well listen, no and nadie. It's been a pleasure having this podcast with you today. Unfortunately, it's time to bring the podcast to a close. It's been a great an interesting discussion. And I think it'd be really helpful for those starting higher education, or for those who are playing as well. One of the things I would just like to say to everybody considering taking up a university pays off for those who have got their grades. First of all, congratulations. Second of all, go for it. Going to University is a life changing opportunity, and can give you a perspective of life that you may not be able to get anywhere else. So I would implore you to take that journey, and make the most of it. And I think it'd be a great opportunity now just to go around and hear some final thoughts from both nadie. And Nora, I just wanted to say this podcast was absolutely amazing. And thank you so much more for giving me a few of your top tips and hacks. I think that's helped me a lot. And I'm really excited to start this new chapter. And I hope that the upcoming years of my uni life of great and that they stand up to my expectations, because this very low expectation is stuck with me and I will be hoping to achieve that. So thank you guys so much for having me. It's been a pleasure being here with you guys. And likewise, it's been a pleasure meeting everyone here and having this discussion. I'm really excited to hear more about things like this. And hopefully this really does help a lot of people. And it was just so nice to hear from Nadi, I'm so excited for you. Honestly, I think you're gonna do amazing. As you said, you've seen enough real life, this is nothing for you. Uni is going to be fun. And for everyone else who's listening, don't let the stress get to you. Try to be in the present and enjoy it and praise yourself for how far you've come to not forget that. And lastly, and not to forget, please plug the podcast to your friends tell a friend to tell a friend as they say, and we look forward to seeing you on the next one. If you want more information, then visit our blog at www.centerpointe.org/blog. Don't forget Centerpoint offers free advice via the centerpoint helpline to anyone aged 16 to 25. who is homeless or at risk of homelessness. Call us free on Oh 808-800-0661 We're open Monday to Friday 9am to 5pm. You can also leave us a message on our website@www.centerpointe.org.uk slash you of homelessness slash get help now