Four LGBTQ+ former Centrepoint service users and host, Jake Edwards (@jakeftmagic) talk about identity, pride, acceptance and generational change.
Ari, Lara, Gary and Frankie have a frank conversation with Jake Edwards about what it's like to be LGBTQ+ and homeless. How have things changed since Gary was a teenager in the early 90s to today? Have things got better or worse and is being trans similar to how it felt to be gay a generation ago?
They also discuss education in depth and what needs to change to make things easier for young LGBTQ+ young people.
Four LGBTQ+ former Centrepoint service users and host, Jake Edwards (@jakeftmagic) talk about identity, pride, acceptance and generational change.
Ari, Lara, Gary and Frankie have a frank conversation with Jake Edwards about what it's like to be LGBTQ+ and homeless. How have things changed since Gary was a teenager in the early 90s to today? Have things got better or worse and is being trans similar to how it felt to be gay a generation ago?
They also discuss education in depth and what needs to change to make things easier for young LGBTQ+ young people.
made the forecast from centre by young people for all people. Centerpoint is the UK is leading youth homelessness charity. at Centerpoint. We believe no young person's life should be defined by homelessness. We give young people the support they need to heal and grow no matter what. for over 50 years, we've been the centre point for change, personal and political. Everyone has their part to play with young people leading the way. This podcast has been created by young people with lived experience of homelessness will be shining a spotlight on some of the issues that affect us. We hope to challenge and change some of the stereotypes and bring others with us as part of the movement to end youth homelessness for good welcome to point made the centre point podcast by young people for all people. My name is Jake Edwards, my pronouns are here and they and I will be your host for this month's episode. Today we'll be celebrating pride with a frank and open conversation with Centerpointe LGBTQ plus service uses both former and current to explore what it's like to become homeless due to your identity. How have things changed over time? Are they harder or easier or just different is being transgender or non binary today, similar to how things felt to be gay a generation ago, they said my name is Jake and I experienced being homeless when I was 18. Due to a relationship breakdown with my mum, after I came out as trans, I was homeless for a brief period of time and relied on my friends to help me get out of that situation. But I never thought to seek support from any charities or any other organisations. Because I was really struggling to understand my circumstances as someone that was homeless. I was then also homeless again a few years later, after a breakdown in my mental health. Whilst I was waiting to hear back about top surgery on the waiting list for top surgery for a very, very long time. And I was very much in the dark about where it was in that process. It was really, really hard to process mentally. And I just sort of fell into a state of depression. I couldn't support myself anymore. And yeah, that again, managed to pull myself out of the situation. But also I think it would have been so much easier if I'd have had Centrepoint, or just any support during that to figure out how to get out of that situation without just sort of relying on myself to find ways of finding new employment. And yeah, cool. I think that's my ramble. I'd now like to get everyone on the panel to introduce themselves because you all tell me your name, how you identify, and how your gender or sexuality connects to your experience of homelessness. Hi, my name is Frankie, my pronouns are also Ed, trans one happy Pride Month, everyone that I also had a relationship breakdown with my mom. But I didn't go to Senator point, the first time I was homeless, when I used sent a point I had had something similar where I'd developed a seizure disorder that I couldn't, I didn't really know what it was. And I was getting quite depressed about that. And the pandemic, I ended up needing to phone them in October. But when I was put in temporary accommodation on Christmas Eve, I was put in a b&b with a bunch of sort of mental health professionals and Housing Offices in my ear being like, don't interact with anyone don't interact with anyone. And then my mental health got to a point where I had to and realise that these people were actually, you know, really decent people. So I had some people that were completely fine with it like some of the men's like older men, I ended up befriending some of them were veterans, and they cotton's my pronouns really easily. And then there are some friends I actually that were a little bit younger than me that it took like three months and a bunch of bullying, to get my pronouns, right. So shortly before, I needed to use an appoint for quite a while I was dealing with addiction issues that were not being helped whatsoever by my home situation because of this whole moralistic versus clinical approach to addiction. And my point is like, all of that could have been prevented if people weren't so awful about things about people with addictions, you know, things that they can't necessarily control because you choose to take a drug, okay. Yeah, sure. However short sighted that might have been Nobody chooses to be an addict and everybody deserves medical help. And that's what I really feel extremely passionate about. I'm an ex social policy student earn. I had to quit because of some physical health issues. So I'm in the middle of trying to sort my mental health and physical health out and I'm hoping that too, I'm genuinely not sure what I'm gonna go back in and do I'm looking to potentially go into medicine or to basically go into addiction recovery. Yeah, I'm just finding my feet at the moment. I'm delora. And I identify as she her, I think my sexuality has impacts my homelessness, in terms of my home was was never really stable to begin with, I did actually grew up in foster care. But when I like officially came out, I was like, I was 14. And they literally just thought that it was something purely psychological, my family, me. So they ignored it for a little bit, I spent a lot of time thinking it was pointless to ever bring up again. And I also just tried to, like, ignore it about myself as well. Until when I got older, and it got to a point where my family couldn't avoid it any longer. Like, before having the option of staying at another family member's house, I kind of lost that option, because now it like, became real. So yeah, and then that that made me homeless, and yeah, Centerpointe had accommodation, which they took me into, thankfully, I'm really glad as well. Centrepointe as well, because when I went in, I was really struggling with school. And they offered tutors, counsellors, really anything you need. I mean, you could tell your key worker, what you wanted, or they could help you find what, you know, you may have needed, and they would have got that for you. So like I was equipped for the tutors, and I wasn't always but as I grew older, I kind of just fell in love with the legal system. And yeah, I'm a law student now. Thanks. Hi, my name is Gary. I identify as gay man. And my pronouns are he and him. And the reason I became homeless in the 1990s was because of my sexuality. What happened to me was, I used to keep diaries, and I was talking in my diaries about that I thought I might be gay. And one of my cousins read my diary. And I was booted out with no time for me to explain anything or so I lived, I literally lived on the streets. I got arrested twice for vagrancy during that time, which is a crazy door in itself. You know, having nowhere to live. In hindsight, I was 18. So I think maybe the police thought I was very vulnerable. What I learned from that experience was to stay awake all night, and then sleeping parks and things during the day because it looked like you were sunbathing on the web was quite good when I was homeless. And then I used to go to various places at night, one of them being Dunkin Donuts Picatinny where I befriended a couple of prostitutes who were lovely, they were in their 30s they seem really old time really looking back. And they looked after me, these give me coffee and doughnuts, and you know, sort of look out for me. And then one day I arrived, or one light arrived. And they said that they wanted me to speak to this man at the time, I remember being terrified, because I thought that they were suggesting that I started to become male prostitutes. And in actual fact, that man was an outreach worker from centerpoint. And he that night, got me into the hostel at Varick Street in the West End. And then I went, I'd stayed there for two weeks, and then I got into a short term hostel. And then eventually I got my own place. So that's my story. Looking back, for someone that's in their 50s. Now, I am so grateful to centerpoint. I think my life could have been very different with the company that I was with at the time, while I was living on the street. I felt like I was on the scrapheap that no one cared that the law against me, and now I am a teacher of the deaf. And I work in a secondary school. And I love my job. I'm very passionate about it. And I think that for a long time, I kept that my experience of being homeless and living on the street, very quiet. And it wasn't until we had the reunion for the 50th celebration that I faced it again and they came up and then I obviously had to ask for time off work for that. And that surprised a lot of people that had no idea that I used to be homeless. So yeah, I'm very happy. My job and my life could have been very different. And I feel very good about Centerpoint giving that new opportunity to reset my life and support that they gave me was amazing that Hi, I'm Ari, I'm in my 20s, I'm 21, I, they he pronouns, I'm non binary, and I became homeless six months ago, I'm now in my own place, I can't homeless because of a falling out with my mom, I was very lost for a while, and I just didn't want to do anything. Centerpoint really helped me get on my feet again. And it took a while, because I just didn't want to get up. But I didn't want to make friends. I didn't want to do anything. But the people that I met at some point that I became friends with, really helped me get out of school that I was. And now I work with little kids, thanks to centerpoint. And the Kickstarter scheme that they had, at the time, I'm truly passionate in games and art and creative things, hopefully trying to get a YouTube channel somewhere. The podcast from centre by young people, for all people. Gary, you mentioned that you were homeless in the 90s. And as someone that didn't first think about their identity until sort of roughly the 2010s I always look back and think about people discovering their identity during the 90s. As that must have been such a scary time, because it's coming off the back of the 80s when the AIDS crisis really kicked up. And I feel like that really affected the attitudes, of course of people towards you know, anyone that that had a different sexuality. Not even thinking about gender, because I feel like it was really left out of the conversation at the time. How do you think things have changed in a generation? Jake, that's massive thing to sort of, say this this thing Tway, but you know, when I was at school, 1988 is when I left and you're right, you know, everything on the TV was dominated by HIV and AIDS pandemic, and it's going to kill you. And, and I think, you know, it was coined as the gay plague. So 16, I was terrified. And then in 19, ata closed from section 28, came out from the Conservative government, which prevented any what they call promotion of all supporting of homosexuals. So you can imagine that being at school and being picked on for being a bit feminine, and your teachers could not even step in and help you because they would be at the risk of being seen as promoting or supporting anyone that was different, especially gay, and they could lose their job. So it was a scary time. With the gender stuff, though, which is interesting. I've been thinking about this, because I think things are different now. Because we have more labels for things. But if you look at music, for example, in the 80s, we had boy, George, and Marilyn. And they were coined as gender benders. I think the phrase was at the time, it was like, Is it a boy is a girl we don't know. It's like, you know, so you said that it was to be really cool to or to be sort of the music was great. So that was a bit forgiving. But it was like there's something wrong with them, or that they were just labelled as gay. And I think the legislation was the biggest thing. I mean, you know, I have friends that lost their jobs overnight, and you're allowed to do that if someone thought you were gay, you could get sacked from your job. So I had a really good friend was a bank manager. And he was in his 30s. And because he wasn't married, the auditors came in aside asked him lots of personal questions about his why he was single. And they came to the conclusion that he was gay, and they sacked him on the spot. At the time with the AIDS pandemic. Everyone was living in fear, you learn. As a gay man, the best education I had was from the gay community around HIV and AIDS so that men go into pubs or clubs. But then the law at that time said you had to be 21 to be a practising homosexual. I had a partner when I was 19, and he was 24. He would have been put on the sexual offenders register. If anyone had made a complaint against us. I would have been cast as being abused. Even though I was in love with him and he was in love with me. There was a very healthy relationship until he died. I was 30 He had a massive heart attack. And at that time, lost my house because we were to house together but again, the law Unfortunately, when we applied for the mortgage, there was a lifestyle questionnaires attached to mortgages. And they asked you if you're homosexual. And if you said yes, you would not get a mortgage. And that's what happened to us. But the broker actually said, reapply, but one of you to reapply. Keith has the biggest earner at that time. So he got the mortgage, and I went down as a registered logic, logic type, legal lodger or something. But when he died, there was no legal backup, there was no civil partnerships or anything like that, you know, the thought of that was just a dream merely getting married, I never thought it would ever happen in my lifetime. When he died, when he went to the hospital, I wasn't even allowed to be with Him, until his parents had come along and given permission for me to go and be with him. And I lost my home, I lost everything. Even I contributed to mortgage and stuff. And it's a difficult difficult time. But we got through it, it was a scary time to be in, but it was also, I was young. And I thought I'm fighting for my rights. And you know, I am as good as anybody else. And I deserve to love and be loved. And then fast forward to now be in my 50s. And society has really changed a lot, and people are a lot more open. And with my job, sorry, I'm banging on a little bit. I work in a faith school. I've been there five years now. And when I went for my interview, I know straightaway, I said, any questions. I was like, Yes, I'm a gay man, you know, a long term relationship for 20 years. Is this going to cause an issue in the Catholic school? And they said, No. But there were still some old timers there. Who spoke to me and said that, you know, five years ago, you would never be working in a school like this, we wouldn't have someone like you. So then you become resilient. You know, I'm in the lion's den, if you like, but I did say, Well, what's changed? And they said, you've got the law on your side now. And my response was, yes, you're right. Let's move on. I do struggle with all the non binary and sis and it's a minefield, but I think that's because I've been in a long term relationship. Now. I've been more or less living under a rock, I'm in suburbia in the countryside, I don't go to bars and clubs, and we just get on with our lives. And I have had to have an education, I mean, things like prep, you know, the HIV drug, you know, things like that. Nothing compared to recently, I'm learning the jargon. So going along, I think a lot of gay men in my generation are probably a bit confused. And I think a lot of heterosexual people are very confused. At least I'm open to it. I was. So I just wanted to start by thanking you so much for everything you just said. Because it was really, it was a pleasure to listen to is really very emotional, and very real. So thank you for sharing that with us. So for everyone else that's just listened. Has any of that come as a shock? Is that all stuff that you've known before? What was it like to hear that I was having a conversation similar with my friend who's also non binary. And then I was speaking about when, like, the revolution sort of came about when all of it just changed in such a small timeframe. I mean, homosexuality was always around, and like, you know, for so long, it was just forbidden. And how it was such a short like frame of time. It's all like, legalised again, and how it's like all allowed again. And I think it's to do with the Internet. And I think it's to do with the fact that like, when, like information communication technology came about, it wasn't the fact that there was so many gay people and that we like somehow multiplied I mean, as a community, LGBTQ plus, yes. It's not just the gays. It's not that we multiplied by some rarity, it's that I think we all just looked at forums online. And I think that like, loads of people were just brought together and thought, Well, I'm like that, well, I feel this way. And it's okay to feel this way. And I think that way, it just like, made us stronger to kind of just like, you know, fight for those rights. I think that's that kind of veers into something that I'm really passionate about. I do social media, the internet as a job. It's something that I've been like obsessed with and attached to from the second I had an internet connection in my home. And I really, really believe that The way we're seeing sort of a, growing in the statistics of the amount of people identifying as LGBTQ plus, so it's growing over the years, I can only think that that is because we are, we are hyper connected as a society as a, as a planet in a way that we've never ever been before. And we are sharing information, we're sharing our thoughts or opinions, and our deepest feelings. And if we're connecting with other people about those, and somebody else has a language that you've never heard before that says, actually, this is this is this label, this is what this means it's a part of this thing. And you can learn that and know that that is how you identify. I think that's why we're growing as a community because we are being given the language to understand how we identify. And I think that's a beautiful thing. I think that's wonderful. It's allowing people more love and peace in their life that they might not have had because of course, people have been trans and gay and queer throughout the generations, but they didn't know that they were. So they may have lived a life that felt wrong, and it didn't have as much happiness in it that it could have if they'd have had the language and know that that's something that they could be. Anyway, we'll go to Frankie Next, you're 100% Right, I think I realised that wasn't cisgender like being as young as like understanding what genitalia actually wasn't meant. But aside from that, there was this humongous cognitive dissonance in my life, because you have to understand I was raised by two mums in a same sex relationship. So it was strange to me because I went to a Catholic school for five years. And it is interesting to hear Gary, talk about that, actually, because as late as 2018, I was doing a religion GCSE on Catholic Christianity where I have to literally give opinions why homosexuals weren't allowed in society. And that was in 2017, when I did my GCSEs, so I'm fuming about that. Because this is a thing like that culture when I was in Catholic school from 2012 to 2017. On one hand, I'm reading that it's okay to be gay, and that it's okay to be trans as the 2010 sort of gets further along. But at the same time, I'm being told not to trust what I hear online. I'm not I'm being told not to trust what I see online. There are trans people in this school that have been deliberately outed and bullied mercilessly. I wasn't allowed. I wasn't even allowed to wear trousers at my school like Girls, Girls, Girls, I'm doing the air quotes thinking party weren't allowed to wear trousers, we were all we were all stuck in skirts. So that was me in a glass closet for like five years, because I just thought I was gay. I didn't think I was trans or anything until I started really looking into it. And then in my first relationship I got with someone who was actually trans. And then that sort of confirmed what I had been thinking for the last eight years. But that's kind of really sad. When you think about it, I was brought up in a gay environment, and I didn't really understand that it was okay to be trans until as late as been about 18. So like three years ago. And that's the thing like when you have when you have a culture like that in places, and it's important that schools, you get people that are, you know, just sort of pent up their sexuality and like, like Jake said, you know, they don't get to have that quality of life that everyone else takes for granted. But yeah, that's it. There's a huge cognitive dissonance personally, and what I was being taught at school in those curriculums, which I didn't really believe anyway, but yes, I'll stop talking now. I just wanted to interject really quickly, because I thought it was really funny Frankie that you mentioned that there was a question on your GCSE exam that said, something along the lines of, you know, gay people don't belong in society. Pretty sure I had that same question on my exam. It's a little anecdote I like to tell people that I got that question got so furious, that I went off on a huge, huge rant. And then had to put a disclaimer in the back of my exam book that it didn't mean any offence to anyone who ever was like grading my paper. Yeah, it was it Edexcel your religion GCSE? I think it might have been it's been a long time. But yeah, that was I didn't answer it. I literally just left it blank. Or I must have written something like how dare you or something? I remember not answering it and somehow still getting an A I was flabbergasted. But yeah, anyways, oh, yeah, I got an E on that. Cool, I want to pass to our next. It's funny how like, people just kind of try to get involved with this. The whole like, oh, well, we're, we're accepting now because it's all okay to be accepting. And it's like this trend to be accepting rather than just be from the start and not question it. Or question it with like the intent to learn rather than be absolutely rude about it. Like I went to Catholic school because I was forced to buy my stepdad when I was younger. I didn't even like Catholic schools. Yeah, I just wanted someone who's working in a Catholic school now. I'm Alan Quaker, actually, I always have hope. And listening to you guys, I know where my school that I'm working at, at the moment, one of the head teachers there. When I first started, I tried to get something off the ground for lesbian and gay history. And I was point blank told no. And I tried to invite some sort of external agencies to come in and do some work. And it was like, squash, however, this year, they have embraced it. And it has been allowed to be spoken about in a Catholic school in a positive way. There is some restrictions, they do like to keep a bit of control there. But with the uniform, we have students that are allowed to wear trousers, and if they're trans or going through a transition, they are cared for, as an get that Catholic phrase of as an individual. We love the individual and love is the centre of everything. But of course, sin comes into it. But I always have hope. And there is change happening even within, you know, where in the school that amount, not everybody's Catholic anyway. But there are some amazing people there that are forward thinking as society has shifted from the 90s to what it is now. I think religion is going to catch up as well, you know, and But education is the key. And I think that, you know, as you've expressed quite well in the Internet has helped, I think, programmes on TV for my generation, how the first gay case, which was a peck on the forehead, and EastEnders caused outrage back then. And without parents, I think, as I got older, and my family, I have tried to understand a bit more. And I think, if I had a baby with me now, would I want them to be straight and charmed? Or would I want them to have the experiences that I've had, and you guys are having, if they know we're different from that. And I think our parents have had to go through an education or our families in order to learn because, you know, society has to catch up. And then the whole changes, that's what generally happens. But it is all about education is so important. And it's our job to do that. I think that's just such a an interesting point, because I remember reconnecting with my mum over the last couple of years, and we've got a really good relationship now. But a part of the reason she struggled so much with me coming out as trans is because she said, I just wanted you to have an easy life. I didn't, I didn't want this for you. Because it seems really hard. And I think for me, I see that as a lack of education and a lack of exposure, a lack of understanding, because there was not, you know, queer stuff in mainstream media, there was no positive representation of trans people in mainstream media. And I think if she would have had that, and had that, that exposure to the realities of what it can be like to be a trans person, is that, you know, being LGBTQ plus is not a bad thing. We in common tend to have negative experiences. But a lot of those can be because of the opinions of the people around us because of the treatment of the people around us. But when you think about boil it down to what does it actually mean to be LGBTQ? Plus, what is that experience? I can only think within myself that, yes, there have been struggles, but it's been such a wonderful and positive thing. It's been amazing. I'm so thankful that I was born as a person who is non binary, I love being bisexual. Because it's brought me so much joy, there have been struggles, I did go through, you know, my issues the NHS and getting hormones and getting the surgery that I needed. And that was tough. But I had so much joy of being trans and I think if my mum had known that, and it looked down at her child and thought it might be a little bit difficult, but it's going to be so much better that you are this way than to try and deny it or to try and change it. But I feel like that does come down to education. Ari, did you want to say something? Yeah, like the whole like education thing. And I I believe that the if the they had like, even with like my mom and my mom's fiancee like they're like, he's like, he's really open to it. And he's always say, like, you know, like, he's really accepting to it. And I really am really grateful that my mom found a really good guy. Because my mom just she she doesn't get it and she doesn't want to get it. I feel like sometimes there's always like one or two videos on the internet, where it's these people talking about how the gays and the trans are turning their kids gay and trans is to hold on. There's always these types of videos out there and hey, I've seen them online all the time, and they're all over the place, if you really look for it, near them, I'll have that all right relationship every now and again, when it doesn't come to like really intense stuff like things with me coming out and everything like that. Not just lack of education, it's just sometimes I think for certain people is the unwillingness to learn or change and adapt. Teachers are so important to not only the students, but to getting prepared for the outside world, that it's sad that a lot of them, our schools aren't doing enough to help students and making them uncomfortable with it. Like I was pretty glad because I didn't really care much about school and I wasn't bullied very much, I was quite within myself. So I learned a lot of what I know, through social media, and I came out a lot sooner to friends than I ever did to family. I knew my grandmother wouldn't care, because even though she's older, she was just always very open. And I love her for that. So when I came out, she was like, Okay, that was just really happy, because it was nice to be accepted by family, because it means a lot to me. I just had this thought, and I'm not quite sure how to word it. But I feel like during the 80s and 90s, there was this sort of uneven into the 2000s, there was this sort of hangover of the AIDS crisis into how I guess sort of say our parents generation would have reacted to us coming out. So you know, parents saying, I just want you to have the easiest life because their perception of what it's like to be gay is that AIDS crisis. And I sort of feel like maybe now, there is still a hangover within education of section 28. So there may be teachers out there who technically can talk about it, and would like to talk about it, but feel like, maybe there's a fear, maybe there's too this idea that they would get in trouble. Or this kind of feeling of holding back because of that. I wondered if anybody had any thoughts. Going into a religious school, I think the I had a pretty good teacher for religious education, she was prepared. And she taught us quite a bit just it wasn't just same sex. She just taught us about, like, just sex and she was prepared. She came into the box and probs and every she was ready. This woman was ancient, but she was ready to teach us everything that we needed to know, condoms and everything, she was ready to set us into, like, pretty good out in the world. And I feel like some teachers have like, the I think the older the some teachers get, they just start like having more fun with things. And they just show especially for the like, she was a religious education teacher, she was really sweet and really prepared for like this section. She loved doing this, like this section about sex and stuff like that. It was nice. But it was really nice to like, see a temperature teacher really into the education and really willing to teach the students. As a teacher now what I observe is almost always been there, young people are just naturally curious. They want to talk about everything, and you know, about what they see around them. And, you know, they want to push boundaries or have conversations. I do think that some teachers are very nervous about talking about anything around gender and sexuality in particular. But that's because they don't want to say the wrong thing. And then get their parents bringing up complaining, because we don't know what the parents views are on things. So we have to be very careful. I mean, I'm very open to having conversations and the types of phrases I use are, well, the Catholics believe this, but other people believe this, and you know, it's okay. And I've often said in assembly, God makes no mistakes. And you are who you are, we have to celebrate that diversity and understand each other and look for God in each other. But unfortunately, in secondary school, and in particular, teenagers, the main aim is to be the same as everybody else. No one wants to be different. They want to be popular, and you know, and if you are different, it's such a challenging and difficult environments have, and I agree if you have supportive teachers, it makes the world of difference. Just have a conversation. But what I would like to say is a time when teachers, gay teachers or trans teachers can stand there and say, I am like you I've been saying that and be that open about it. I think that that is a big change that needs to happen in educational settings. I was going to agree there needs to be a lot better training in schools. I also went to Catholic school. And I think most of my teachers as well, I think they knew, because I think, as well, all the students at that age were very, very strict, like Catholic families. And I think you can just like sense it about yourself. And I think they can kind of just sense that you're not quite like them or that like when you're figuring stuff about yourself, you might find it like, weird, I don't know, like in the changing rooms, or No, I think they can sense about you as well. And if there was ever like an incidence of bullying, depending on my luck for which teacher was dealing with, like, the conflict or whatever incident had happened, the outcome could have been so different, like there were, I think more Catholic and homophobic teachers, then I get sent to isolation. And if it was another teacher who I'm not going to name, who I suspect, and I think we all suspected was also gay, then she kind of like, get it, and she'd understand why the conflict sort of arose. And like, I think she could sympathise with it more. Because I did come out whilst I was in school. Yeah, and she she didn't make me feel wrong for or to or make me feel like I had to go to the chapel. And pray, you know? So I think I think it was like, great, Gary, that you say, God makes no mistakes. I wish someone had told me that earlier. Because they treat you some of them in Catholic schools can treat you like, like you're a mistake. So yeah, I was going to agree with like, all of you, I think a supportive, supportive teacher can really mean the difference between, I don't know, I'm sorry. But within within the realm of, of GCSEs. And the way that they're carried out, especially after the pandemic, they can really be the difference between mental illness and more mental illness. We're probably a handful of teachers that were gay, but there was no, but none of them were out. And I think if it hadn't been for those teachers, I wouldn't have felt comfortable coming out. I don't think I would have felt towards the end of it. Like I really didn't give a monkey's what anyone's opinions on, on sexuality were because I don't really think I'd met much resistance, I'd gone to pride every year. And I think it was only until I was actually I put myself in that framework, because I came out of school as well. I came out when I was 13. I was in year nine or so one or two, but 14. And I wouldn't have come out in that context. Where was she? You know, when someone bullies you, and they're like, oh, go out with me fancy. It's one of the popular guys. And you know, you know, that's not what's happening. But it was one of those and they were like, Why don't you give them a go? Why don't you give them a go on and just turn around and we just went gay. And then I didn't say a word. And another lesson goes by and that's all lunch. And by the time lunch is around, like a school of 800. Kids, everybody knows. And that's the thing when you are forced into a context where you are, where you're you where you are different because you've got people like asking you know about your dad and stuff like that, when it by the time it gets to secondary school, I really didn't care. Like I was like, right, if this is going to be my life and Soviet like. So thinking about the legacy of education and how it's impacted us. What do you think is the one thing that needs to change to make things easier, being a teenager back in this time secondary school, I was always weird to begin with. So I never really fit in, I didn't want to be popular. I just wanted to be left alone. Because that was just kind of how I was raised. And my family was just kind of like, very secluded. And I feel like a lot of schools like Catholic school specifically seem to, like avoid the topic of gender or sexuality. Outright being like homophobic or transphobic, they just avoid it altogether, and just go sex. And this is what you should avoid. And you should wear protection. And like there are some really great teachers that you can talk to and they're really sweet. And there's just some teachers that they hire that are just really mean and horrible to everyone around them. And you're sitting there like why are they here if they don't like students? I think the biggest thing that education needs to do is get people that actually want to teach that likes to teach kids that enjoy it, because teenagers don't really want to be there half the time. So if you make it worth their while, they will be willing to Learn, they'll listen, they'll be there for the lessons for the teacher. And as well as teaching them about the wide variety of the genders and the spectrum and everything. But I think that's very important and probably should be taught. Like, I didn't even know what I was when I was in secondary school. I only came out as bisexual because some girls that I was friends with turned around and asked me out, and I didn't even know, I had no clue about any of that stuff. The home that I've come from, so it would have been nice to learn it in school. Yeah, no, I agree. I think they definitely want to teach us about transgender and LGBTQ and everything. But it's like, it's not just a social thing. Like, if you think about it, it's also to do with your health. Like, when I went to school, I mean, people were talking about safe sex, for instance. I mean, and the sex they're all about, I mean, heterosexual sex isn't the only sex that you can get STDs or, or skin conditions from stuff like, you know, like, heterosexual sex isn't the only sex, it's just I'm sure some people enjoy it. It's just how you make babies like, and where else you're gonna get that information? You know, I mean, like, things need to stop being delivered in such a detached way. I think the people that should be teaching us should be people that can relate to what they're teaching in some way. Because they shouldn't, you know, deliver as if it's some sort of condition, like some of you may experience this thing that some people experience like, No, this is, this happens. And I am the product of this. And it needs to be taught with like happiness, because there isn't a lot of happiness around it. Like there hasn't been. So that's what I think. Yeah. I think that what would be brilliant. And what was amazed me listen to your is that quite a lot of you came out at school. And I think that that is quite a big thing to be celebrated. Because I wouldn't have dreamt doing that when I was at school. So there is change happening. I think with the teachers, I think that there needs to be a time where teachers can feel safe, like myself to say, I am a gay teacher, navigating to acceptance, I can teach you how to be gay, but like, I'm a teacher, and I'm gay. Yeah. I'm in a relationship, and it's healthy. And it's amazing. And it's about love, and, you know, connecting and showing those positives. And I think that we need to move on as educators and allow teachers of all backgrounds, you know, of all persuasions, to be able to stand that and say, This is me, you know, and it's okay, if you are gay have those role models in place, we talk about mental health and mental well being, that are lots of topics that we're not confident in talking about, because we're worried about what the parents might say, or what, we might lose our jobs. But I think young people want to talk about stuff. And, you know, they want that information. And I think that, you know, schools and the government needs more protection for teachers to be able to stand I'd love to be able to stand in front of my assemblies and say, I am gay. I am in a 20 year partnership. And I was at school once and it's okay, there's nothing wrong with you. But I'm pretty sure that if I did that, I'd be hauled into an office and I will be told what do you think you were doing? And they'll probably be a lot of complaints. So there's that fear there as well still, but there is a need to have those honest conversations, and to be proud of who we are. You know, lots of teachers good teachers are lesbian, gay, bisexual, trans. We are good people the same as doctors, lawyers were everywhere. And I think we should be embracing that rainbow. I do. I have hope now because I didn't when I was younger, but I long for the day where it happens. It should be just accepted as part of society. We are part of society. And no matter how many times someone tries to squash it, they're driving us to be who we are is always going to be there. We are strong and we are you know loves love and nothing can squash that. I do feel like people have different opinions and they're always going to have different opinions or beliefs. And it may be religious or cultural, it may be from the society around you, I think one thing we need to change is just having more kindness, more kindness that we, we might not agree, or we might not use the right language, or we might not understand and things might be changing. And it's okay to feel a little bit like you're left behind, or that your beliefs don't fit in with what you should believe or what should be right or what should be wrong. But just treating the people around you with kindness, with understanding and saying, I might not get it. I might not know what to do right now. But I still love you. And I still care about you as a human being. And I think, you know, as people that have experienced homelessness, because of potentially a lack of somebody, just saying, I don't get it, but I love you anyway. I think, you know, perhaps we all agree that maybe a little bit of kindness is is perhaps what we need. So I would love for everyone to go around. I'm going to challenge everyone to say just one sentence, I might be forgiving if you sneak in a second sentence. But one sentence about what makes you proud to be a part of this community are hopping first Foster, it's in my head, I am proud to be a part of a community that is so beautiful, diverse and willing to love. And I will pass to our pastor telera Thank you. I am proud to be a part of the LGBT community. Because through embracing, like my personal differences, it's kind of like helped me become equipped with a certain degree of strength and humility, which can help me with like, anything that comes my way. I'm proud to be part of this community, because it helped me find me, I'm proud to be me. I am so proud to be part of this community. Because fundamentally, it's kept me alive. When I was beaten down, and I deal with those challenges to people from most communities, and, you know, the people that were gay, friendly, supported me, kept me going. And when we look through history, we've always been there. And experiencing the community for the first time for me was like, a light bulb going on in the dark room. I felt like I belonged. And I arrived. And I still feel that way today. I'll never stop being proud of a community that is so resilient, and so robust and enough to be able to get to a point where 30 years ago, we are people like Gary said, like being fired from their jobs. To get them gay kids feel uncomfortable to come out in Catholic school within the space of like, not even someone's lifetime, I will die with my pride. It's beautiful. Oh, I love that. I'd like to thank everyone on this panel for taking part in this month's discussion. And to all of our listeners. I'd like to thank Centerpoint for having me as a host this month it's been a real honour. Please continue to support the point made podcast like subscribe and share. If you want more information, then visit our blog at www.centerpointe.org/blog. Don't forget Centerpoint offers free advice via the centerpoint helpline to anyone aged 16 to 25. who is homeless or at risk of homelessness. Call us free on Oh 808-800-0661 We're open Monday to Friday 9am to 5pm you can also leave us a message on our website at www.centerpointe.org.uk/youth homelessness slash get help now. The podcast from centre by young people for old people